Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Corsa_Sport21
But how is he to know that they cant pass??Hes maybe thought they could pass so has done the decent thing and moved over.Not like hes stayed to the left and holding them up.
Maybe by judging the fact that he's moved over yet the Evo still can't overtake therefore you back off a bit and let them pass.
Easy way to judge it is if a car's caught up with you, it's going faster than you, back off for one straight whilst you let it past then you can be back to your fun without annoying anyone.
If I was driving the Evo and the Civic moved over but kept it planted like that I'd be thinking he was a prick that just had a big head cos he could keep pace with an Evo on the straights, it didn't look like he had any intention of letting the Evo pass
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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I've not read all the thread,
But, I think both parties are to blame, the Civic had the back straight and main straight to let the Evo's past. The place where he did let them pass would of been ok, if he whacked the right indicator on on the previous corner, kept it tight, let off a tad and the evo's would of been past half way to the next corner, he could pull back in take the corner then let the Cossie and 205 past on the back straight. He only pulled across half way on that little straight, so fucked up his own line.
And the 205 driver should of read the situation better, on the vid, the civic pulls over at 48/49secs, the 205 isn't even at the apex of the previous corner. At 51/52secs the 205 is halfway up that straight and the civic is already turning left to take the corner, yet it sounds like the 205 doesn't hit the brakes till 53/54secs and hits the civic at 55secs.
Also the Cossie shouldn't of overtaken too.
So as I see it, driver judgement fail on both parties, so just a track day incident
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smcGSI16V
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Registered: 26th May 03
Location: Farnborough Drives: Thurlby 888 CDTi No.98
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quote:
Originally posted by Graham88
Whilst the Civic driver has gone about being pressured all the wrong way, I think the whole thing ultimately lies with the Evo and the 205 not judging a situation coming up.
The Evo shouldn't be pushing a car like that, not on a public trackday, it's not a race, IMO this should have been picked up on by a Marshall.
The 205 assessed the whole thing completely wrong, went steaming in as if the track was clear, there was too much going on and I think he was very transfixed with catching the Cossie. He could have braked a long time before the corner as you can see the Civic can only go where he did except if he drove onto the grass, which I certainly wouldn't go onto just because somebody doesn't want to slow down for 1 corner.
I do feel sorry for the 205 driver especially on a car he's obviously put alot of time, money and effort into, but as I know, it's a risk you take on trackdays and just one of those things.
[Edited on 25-07-2010 by Graham88]
Couldn't agree with Graham anymore.
The whole approaching of what was visable, was assessed wrongly by the 205 driver.
The civic driver didnt help the situa tion tho.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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my opinion seems to differ from the most.... I really dont think the civic drive ris 100% to blame. He shouldnt have let folk past there, but folk should know not to pass there. Was he expected to just STOP dead on track and wait for ever?
On track you should always be paying a bit of attention to whats ahead.
More discussion on it here http://trackscotland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2074
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sand-eel
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Registered: 15th Mar 07
Location: carluke/braidwood--IRNBRULAND
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I've watched this loads of times now, the civic obviously paniced (put on the brakes on the corner) and didn't want to stop dead on the track. But the 205 should have slowed right down as it was obvious the civic wasn't stopping, both to blame.
[Edited on 25-07-2010 by sand-eel]
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
At the end of the day your mate in the 205 drove into the civic not the other way round despite what actions the civic driver had carried out.
How could he stop?
Coming in to the chicane in 3rd and braking up and onto a hill, there was no way he was going to be able to stop. He slammed on the brakes and they did nothing, the civic driver shouldnt have crawled round he corner. He could have gone to the right of the tyres, stopped on the grass or waited to see if anything was coming. Instead he pulled back in to the racing line then slammed the brakes on. It was un-avoidable.
Not sure why his brakes didnt work.... the chicane is at the brow of the hill.... the 205 should have been on the brakes coming up the hill (can maybe take that chicane at 65-70)... his wheels should have been firmly pressed into the track.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
At the end of the day your mate in the 205 drove into the civic not the other way round despite what actions the civic driver had carried out.
Ok so your driving along the motorway and the car in the left lane decides to pull out doing 40mph while your passing at 70mph you lock up and slam into the car, but its your fault as you drove into them 
Thats not the way it works, the civic pulled out when it should have stayed in, simples
not that simple... the civic had right of way... he was ahead on the track. 205 should not have tried to pass on a corner.
It isnt that clear cut, but those are the rules given at the briefing.
I ALWAYS tell people to come back on to the racing line forcefully if they are letting people by. If you dont you get hung out to dry and get into situations like the civic. Does everyone just expect him to stop just before the apex?
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Graham88
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Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
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That's a shortened version of what I wrote really Adam, I don't think the Civic driver is to blame either, it's kinda 33% fault each between each party, they all made a mistake that contributed to the accident.
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DannyB
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Registered: 6th Feb 08
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Braking too late AK, by him seeing it a second too late the brakes had no effect once the car was on top of the hill, imo anyway.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
quote:
Originally posted by harrisp
But he could see from a good distance that the civic was slowing right down, his brakes and steering didnt do anything because he came into the corner balls out knowing he was obviously gaining on the civic quickly.
He wasnt balls out though, if the civic stayed in the spot just before the chicane where he first let the Evo's passed then it would have been fine, instead he decides to creep round the chicane, pull out then brake when he see's the 205. You dont pull out on to a track like that, it's asking for trouble. All this happened in about 3 seconds dont forget, that isnt a lot of time to react to something like that.
[Edited on 24-07-2010 by DannyB]
Thats the thing though Danny... The Civic wasnt OFF the track, so hasnt just pulled out on to the Track.
Gez has hit the civic, not the other way around.
Again - there is fault with both parties, and its never clear cut. Civic should have just kept HIS line, Gez shouldnt have tried to sqeeze by him.
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Root
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Registered: 28th Dec 08
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in my opinion both were to blame.
Civic was a clear moron and was all over the track all the way through the video.
205 should have seen the civic's stupid driving and already been aware that he's a moron, he had plenty of time to break (the 205).
shame
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
Also the civic driver shouldnt have braked either, he should have launched out the way
should do this, should have done that  Hindsight is ace isnt it!
No one would ever have accidents 
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
Thats the thing though Danny... The Civic wasnt OFF the track, so hasnt just pulled out on to the Track.
Gez has hit the civic, not the other way around.
I meant he pulled back in to the racing line as it were, he could have pulled on to the grass or waited to see if anything was coming, I think gez just didnt expect him to do that and as a result hasnt had enough time to react in the right way.
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am4nf
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Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
Also the civic driver shouldnt have braked either, he should have launched out the way
should do this, should have done that Hindsight is ace isnt it!
No one would ever have accidents
Im just pointing out faults tbh
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I think the only blame you can put on the Civic driver is that he chose the wrong place to pull in.
The other drivers who passed are to blame - you can't do that.
If he was too busy watching the Cossie then he should have been thinking 'my word, that Cossie has just passed on a corner', not 'that Cossie has passed a car which is out of the way, I'm going to do the same now'.
I strongly believe the Civic caused the accident by his actions, but that isn't about blame - the other cars could have done more. They were lucky to get past, your friend wasn't.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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I blame the evos
feckin evos 
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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I think most of us are saying here its 50/50, civic shouldn't of made the situation, 205 should of been prepared/anticipated earlier
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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Evos made the situation...
Civic enabled the situation
205 should have avoided the situation - he crashed into the civic.
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richc
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Registered: 24th Mar 07
Location: Ilkeston
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They all no the track snakes at the point so it was obvious the civic was going use the racing line again at some point to make the bends.
The 205 should of back off well before the corner!
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aron
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Registered: 10th May 07
Location: Ware, Hertfordshire
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205 needs better brakes by the looks of things
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chrisritch
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Registered: 2nd Sep 08
Location: Northants Drives: V40
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tbf the cossies infront were clearly braking for a hazard and its obvious when you look to the next corner the civic is slowing and veering left. admitedly the civic driver shouldnt have braked and pulled out but your mate going balls out pins equally as much blame.
thats just imo though
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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Put it this way, if I'm on a track day and have the boot down and I come across a slowing car in front of me in a chicane I'm going to be fucking fuming.
100% Civic drivers fault imo, complete lack of awareness of both the track and those around him.
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DannyB
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Registered: 6th Feb 08
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You dont expect the civic to pull out though, yes you may notice it but to creep round the corner then stop in the middle of the chicane is stupid.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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the way i see it is the civic couldn't have gone anywhere else as there seemed to be tyres on that corner.
what is he supposed to do? stop or crash into the tyres?
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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He could have gone right on the grass and/or around the tyres, or he could have waited where he was until it was clear to pull out. He shouldn't have been letting folk passed there, even if he was quicker on the straights he should have let them by there, not around the corners when he was pressured.
[Edited on 25-07-2010 by DannyB]
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