xa0s
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In fairness to the Civic driver, it looks like he was either going to swing wide into the corner (or let the others pass) and then just got forced out with a constant flow of cars coming through so unless he came to a complete stop there was nothing really that he could do once he got himself in that situation.
Yeah he shouldn't have got himself in that position to begin with but I'd imagine it's easily done. Difficult one to call really.
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harrisp
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Registered: 15th Dec 07
Location: Derbyshire
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
He knows the track, so I assume he knows the attack speed and the apex on that corner but he didn't have the perception about him to slow the fuck down when there is a car he has gained a SHIT LOAD of ground on in 2-3 seconds?
Like I said, it's a 60mph+ chicane but what you dont expect is a car to turn into the chicane and stop in the middle doing about 25mph, if you pull in you wait or pull on to the grass.
But you should expect for someone to be there causing an obstruction, he knew how much ground he was gaining on the civic yet he still carried on balls out, he should have been more cautious as it seems like he was to keen on chasing the evo to pay attention to other cars.
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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I think what's happened is that he seen the civic pull in but concentrated on the cossie, thinking the Civc wouldn't pull out again and when it has there wasnt enough time to avoid hitting it.
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Limecat
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
He wasnt balls out though, if the civic stayed in the spot just before the chicane where he first let the Evo's passed then it would have been fine, instead he decides to creep round the chicane, pull out then brake when he see's the 205. You dont pull out on to a track like that, it's asking for trouble. All this happened in about 3 seconds dont forget, that isnt a lot of time to react to something like that.
What you actually mean is 'if the Civic had have stopped'.
I am sorry Danny, I have done numerous track days, hell I have been pictured in old shit magazines doing them, but my opinions have got stronger on this since my initial post as you said he knows the track and had done it for 'years'. Sorry but someone with that depth of knowledge that is still attacking the sodding apex with a car that has been going slow for enough time to calm it down is daft.
The Civic driver wasn't the best track day person you have ever seen but as I say repeatedly, it is officially a fast driving day. When you 'race' (trying to pass on a chicane at daft pace) then, sorry, expect to be bitten.
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Limecat
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Registered: 25th Jun 05
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
I think what's happened is that he seen the civic pull in but concentrated on the cossie, thinking the Civc wouldn't pull out again and when it has there wasnt enough time to avoid hitting it.
Your mate was at fault then. Cheers. Case closed.
/thread. 
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
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quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
When you 'race' (trying to pass on a chicane at daft pace) then, sorry, expect to be bitten.
He never tried to pass on the chicane, as I've said 3 times in the thread  he tried to avoid hitting it and couldnt as he was braking at the top of the hill, he wasn't trying to overtake it, merely avoid colliding with it. It doesn't matter if you've done 3000 track days, every time is different. That's like saying Hamilton shouldn't crash because he's Pro and should know how to drive by now.
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
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quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
Your mate was at fault then. Cheers. Case closed.
/thread.
What case?
This is a discussion, no one is out to prove right and wrong. Read my initial post, it says 'thoughts' not who is in the wrong. He would clearly have been able to avoid it in a Metro with semi slicks 
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MarkSport
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Registered: 22nd May 09
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what a wanker for not stopping to check....
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am4nf
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Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
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I think the fact he didnt stop shows he knows he fucked up big time
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Adam_B
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Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
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quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
I think the fact he didnt stop shows he knows he fucked up big time
now your just being daft!
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Limecat
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Registered: 25th Jun 05
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
When you 'race' (trying to pass on a chicane at daft pace) then, sorry, expect to be bitten.
He never tried to pass on the chicane, as I've said 3 times in the thread he tried to avoid hitting it and couldnt as he was braking at the top of the hill, he wasn't trying to overtake it, merely avoid colliding with it. It doesn't matter if you've done 3000 track days, every time is different. That's like saying Hamilton shouldn't crash because he's Pro and should know how to drive by now.
I have viewed it about 30 times from 47 seconds on and I am sorry but your mate didn't read what was happening. 'Red mist'.
I don't for a moment think he thought 'Hey, lets drive into this for shits and giggles' but it strikes me as if he thought he could nip around. He wasn't on the gas but likewise he wasn't on the brakes either until it was FAR too late.
quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
Your mate was at fault then. Cheers. Case closed.
/thread.
What case?
This is a discussion, no one is out to prove right and wrong. Read my initial post, it says 'thoughts' not who is in the wrong. He would clearly have been able to avoid it in a Metro with semi slicks
I know it is Danny. Calm down.
A Metro with semi slicks would have already been cautious at the fact such a huge gap was claimed in such a short time.
quote:
Originally posted by MarkSport
what a wanker for not stopping to check....
Where do you want him to stop? The same place he has just been hit from behind? (From the drivers POV!), you follow the Marshalls.
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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I'm not arguing anyway, we will never agree, it's a discussion so everyones opinions are welcome. Would you ever do what the civic did, I doubt it. The civic may have been faster on the straights given it has daft power but it should have pulled over on the straights and not in the corners where it is easily outpaced by the 4WD boys.
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Limecat
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quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
Would you ever do what the civic did, I doubt it.
I do like a drink TBH.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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Just watched it a few times.
I think the Cossie has a fair chunk of blame tbh. The Civic pulls over to let the Evos pass, once they've passed he goes back for the line but the Cossie was already commited and cut across in front of him, he backed off then at the last second spotted the 205 but obviously it was too late.
From the 205s point of view, it's still awkward to judge after watching it about 10 times, obviously he only saw it the once and had to react to what he read from it, I think he possibly assumed the Civic driver knew he was there and assumed he'd take to the grass but as Danny's said with such little time to judge and react, it's easy to make the wrong judgment
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
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I think that seeing as its a track day and neither driver has liability and both took a risk, whats done is done and pinning the blame will do no good
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am4nf
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Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
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at the end of the day the civic ultimatly caused the crash by not letting the evo's pass in the correct place
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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I'm pretty sure there is good enough vision from far back for the guy in the 205 to have seen the potential occurance, I think the situation was read poorly from the video
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
at the end of the day the civic ultimatly caused the crash by not letting the evo's pass in the correct place
Yes, but the rules that prohibit overtaking on a corner should be observed by all, ie. Civic and other traffic.
I've had people pull to the side in front of me and I stayed behind because I was in a no-overtaking zone. If they look confused and wonder what I'm doing, I treat them with even more caution.
I've also had to adjust my speed massively because I've made a decision to not go for the pass, even when the conditions were otherwise right to do so. Those zones are there for a reason and if any one of those drivers had have observed them, that crash wouldn't have happened. As it was you have a clueless Civic driver who has got scared and made a bad decision, invited some more bad decisions, which were taken. Just unfortunately for the 205 that the gap closed sufficiently by the time he arrived and he hadn't read what was going on.
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am4nf
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Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
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The above is true, he was obviously too into the track day going for a good time and got caught up, like probably a lot of people would have done
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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i also bet the civic is far worse that a damaged qaurter
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tom130691
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Registered: 13th Sep 08
Location: Daventry
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quote:
Originally posted by FlamingCorsa
bit of a tough one really, cos if u go with the rules i have been tought then the civic should have just stayed a head of the evo's etc till the next straight and just held them up till it was safe to pass! but he let them past and only had small place to pull back in!
you could c the civic was gonna have to pull back onto racing line cos was never gonna come to complete stand still to let whole field pass so maybe the 205 should have expected it to happen and eased off!
its always a risk on track day, i been on few and all have been well organised and never actually seen 2 cars crash! yet!
still pretty gutting for both guys to have had cars damaged! least everyone is ok
edit also put this on the road one rear ended the other who would be to blame
agreed the civic had no were to go with out leaving the track i think the 205 should have been more aware/patient, its track time not a race!
[Edited on 25-07-2010 by saxo_tom]
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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I think the bottom line is all the other cars managed to avoid the TWO smashed cars but mr Pug had a problem avoiding one that was still moving.. Granted the Civic shouldnt have been there but expect the uexpected!
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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fcuk, i feel so gutted for the lad 
what happens in terms of insurance etc, do you just lose everything?
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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i blame the civic, 100%
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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civic seemed like a track newbie and was just being over nervous and cautious, its easy to get bullied into pulling over by clearly other faster cars, no over taking on corners also applies to the 205, should have slowed right down, there was 100% enough time to slow down i could see miles away what the civic was doing, unless the 205 was running 150mm brakes.
you have to allow for amateurs on tracks events like these
[Edited on 25-07-2010 by Steve]
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