am4nf
Member
Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by harrisp
The civic driver didnt mean to pull out on your mate, no one is perfect and he just made a mistake like any person on here could do, the worlds best driver could have made the mistake.
Clearly not, nobody thinks ah fuck it im gona drive straight through this next give way, still the civics fault at the end of the day
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
|
I think everyone has a part to play on that. The Evos and Cossie shouldn't have gone for the pass on the corner, Civic shouldn't have allowed it (although by permitting it, he didn't *really* cause it, much as it is noob-like behaviour).
I think your friend should have read it better and also not gone for the pass. It is avoidable because if traffic slows in front, you have to assume you need to slow with it, rather than continue your line and assume the slow car is going to stay out of the way.
Could also criticise the Evos for tailgating but my personal feelings on that is that all you're doing is showing your interest. If the car in front is intimidated by this then they too need to learn to handle that. You will be approached by faster cars, they will show their interest, you are instructed when and how to respond, so do that.
Difficult to say how much the Civic came off the line although unless he left the track, rejoining from a different line is no worse than taking a different line at race pace. Just perhaps you would be blue-flagged and told to make progress.
Looks like the real blame is to be put with whoever mixed up the cars and abilities. Or perhaps the fast cars for going fast. Unfortunately while there's no bottom line for ability on a day like that, you will get people who get in the way. And they're best avoided.
|
ianofbhills
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: newcastle
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
At the end of the day your mate in the 205 drove into the civic not the other way round despite what actions the civic driver had carried out.
Ok so your driving along the motorway and the car in the left lane decides to pull out doing 40mph while your passing at 70mph you lock up and slam into the car, but its your fault as you drove into them 
Thats not the way it works, the civic pulled out when it should have stayed in, simples
Or your driving along the motorway a car in the left lane decides to pull out doing 40 which you can see well in advance. You carry on at your speed regardless of the hazard and then when you realise your approaching too fast you panic brake at the last minute and lose control causing you to hit the car that you seen move into your lane.
Your not meant to overtake on corners on the track, simples
|
taylorboosh
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
User status: Offline
|
ive never been to a track day and probably never will so cant really comment.... i bet the civic driver is similarly pissed that your pal hit him though.
also lol at the fuck sake at end
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
It certainly wasn't unavoidable. As I watched the video I was expecting something a bit 'sudden' but that was well readable IMO.
Does your friend do that track often? 
That chicane is easily took at 60mph, he was doing about 60, something pulling out on you at 60 mph isnt all that readable tbh, especially as you can't brake properly, the brakes may aswell have not been there at the crest of the hill, they would never have worked properly.
Yes he does and has done with many different cars over the years.
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
The cars behind your mate in the 205 managed to avoid a bigger incident though so it was avoidable for them in the same circumstances.
him out to be.
The cars behind were a fair bit back than he was to the civic, they also didnt have a car pulling out in to their line. They could see the crash and could slow down. Totally different scenario.
quote:
Originally posted by harrisp
Also watching the video he can see what the driver in the civic was doing (braking) yet still tried to pass him balls out speed.
He didn't know the Civic driver was going to pull in to his line, he never tried to pass him at all, watch again, he saw it at the last minute and tried to brake and turn. The brakes and steering didn't do anything as by that point he was coming over the top of the hill.
[Edited on 24-07-2010 by DannyB]
|
Sport_1
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 10
Location: Ellesmere port cheshire
User status: Offline
|
do people not realise sunday drivers stay off the track :@
|
Anty
Premium Member
Registered: 19th Mar 08
Location: droitwich
User status: Offline
|
if that was me driving... Hello mr civic drive right in to the fducker 
|
Corsa_Sport21
Member
Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
User status: Offline
|
After watching the video again,its a hard 1 to call.
Start of the video,the Civic driver has pulled over to the right to let the Evo's pass if they can,they dont have the power so he pulls back in on approaching the corner.Gets round the hairpin and again,pulls over to the right to let them pass,again,they dont have enough straight line speed.At least he knows the rules of passing on the left etc and has been decent enough to let them try pass instead of just holding them up.
So why the fuk has he let them pass on the corner??Looks like hes lost the line and fell off slightly and the Evo's have pulled off a stupid pass.
Either way,i dont think the Civic driver is all to blame.
|
am4nf
Member
Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
At the end of the day your mate in the 205 drove into the civic not the other way round despite what actions the civic driver had carried out.
Ok so your driving along the motorway and the car in the left lane decides to pull out doing 40mph while your passing at 70mph you lock up and slam into the car, but its your fault as you drove into them
Thats not the way it works, the civic pulled out when it should have stayed in, simples
Or your driving along the motorway a car in the left lane decides to pull out doing 40 which you can see well in advance. You carry on at your speed regardless of the hazard and then when you realise your approaching too fast you panic brake at the last minute and lose control causing you to hit the car that you seen move into your lane.
Your not meant to overtake on corners on the track, simples
The civic pulled in = to blame
|
Adam_B
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
The civic didnt pull out, he just didnt drive onto the grass. 205 should have read what was happening better.
Civic shouldnt have been there going that slowly but he was, you cant control what other people do. You can only take precautions which means looking past the massive red whale tail.
|
Limecat
Banned
Registered: 25th Jun 05
Location: The Internet
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I think everyone has a part to play on that. The Evos and Cossie shouldn't have gone for the pass on the corner, Civic shouldn't have allowed it (although by permitting it, he didn't *really* cause it, much as it is noob-like behaviour).
I agree with that but IMO the Cossie and Evo passed before the corner as the driver slowed and pulled over to let them pass. Keeping it nailed when you gain that much distance on a car in such a short timeframe is pretty stupid TBH.
EVERY track day I have ever been on you are instructed NOT to pass on a corner. I have still done it though but at a chicane? 
As already said, you go on these days, you know the risks unless you think 'it won't happen to me'. You can insure against it but overall it isn't cost effective IMO unless it is a once in a blue moon thing?
|
am4nf
Member
Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Adam_B
The civic didnt pull out, he just didnt drive onto the grass. 205 should have read what was happening better.
Civic shouldnt have been there going that slowly but he was, you cant control what other people do. You can only take precautions which means looking past the massive red whale tail.
If you look closely it did pull out slightly, realised his mistake tryed to turn back in and braked
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
Watch it again, he didn't try to pass the civic on the chicane, he tried to brake and avoid hitting it.
|
harrisp
Member
Registered: 15th Dec 07
Location: Derbyshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by am4nf
quote:
Originally posted by harrisp
The civic driver didnt mean to pull out on your mate, no one is perfect and he just made a mistake like any person on here could do, the worlds best driver could have made the mistake.
Clearly not, nobody thinks ah fuck it im gona drive straight through this next give way, still the civics fault at the end of the day
I doubt the civic driver thought "fuck this Im gonna pull out straight in front of this car and damage my own car" .
quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
He didn't know the Civic driver was going to pull in to his line, he never tried to pass him at all, watch again, he saw it at the last minute and tried to brake and turn. The brakes and steering didn't do anything as by that point he was coming over the top of the hill.
[Edited on 24-07-2010 by DannyB]
But he could see from a good distance that the civic was slowing right down, his brakes and steering didnt do anything because he came into the corner balls out knowing he was obviously gaining on the civic quickly.
I am not not saying its your mates fault but the civic driver is not completely wrong as your mate could have handled the situation better, but obviously it is easy to blame everyone else and obviously you are going to back your mate as would I.
|
ianofbhills
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: newcastle
User status: Offline
|
Your post on here asks for discussion but you are obviously in support of your pal. Its difficult to tell from a video that you can watch over and over again and notice the incident occuring its obviously alot different at the time. Its gutting its happened, even more so as it was his first time out on track but as others have said at least everyone was ok. Hopefully he'll be able to salvage parts from the car to get him back out and enjoying himself.
I also lol'd at the comment on the vid.
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
quote:
Originally posted by harrisp
But he could see from a good distance that the civic was slowing right down, his brakes and steering didnt do anything because he came into the corner balls out knowing he was obviously gaining on the civic quickly.
He wasnt balls out though, if the civic stayed in the spot just before the chicane where he first let the Evo's passed then it would have been fine, instead he decides to creep round the chicane, pull out then brake when he see's the 205. You dont pull out on to a track like that, it's asking for trouble. All this happened in about 3 seconds dont forget, that isnt a lot of time to react to something like that.
[Edited on 24-07-2010 by DannyB]
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
quote:
Originally posted by ianofbhills
Your post on here asks for discussion but you are obviously in support of your pal
Yes, as I beleive he couldn't avoid the situation, I'm not arguing with any of you, it's a discussion like you say. I can handle a discussion on the internet without breaking in to an argument
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
The Civic hardly looked touched lol!
I thinkt he 205 driver was concentrating on the Cossie too much.
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I thinkt he 205 driver was concentrating on the Cossie too much.
There probably was a bit of tunnell vision regarding the cossie as you generally want to keep up with the pack, I still think the Civic driver was in the wrong for pulling out and stopping in the middle of the chicane.
|
Limecat
Banned
Registered: 25th Jun 05
Location: The Internet
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DannyB
Yes he does and has done with many different cars over the years.
^^^ That right there is the only quote needed.
He knows the track, so I assume he knows the attack speed and the apex on that corner but he didn't have the perception about him to slow the fuck down when there is a car he has gained a SHIT LOAD of ground on in 2-3 seconds?
He has nothing to cry about IMO.
|
ianofbhills
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: newcastle
User status: Offline
|
I'd love to have seen your buddy talking to the guy in the civic afterwards. I bet mr civic was pretty sheepish when he seen the 205 getting towed back in.
|
am4nf
Member
Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
User status: Offline
|
Tbh you would be thinking the civic had died or something as it was basically stopped
|
DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
User status: Online
|
quote:
Originally posted by LETGSI16V
He knows the track, so I assume he knows the attack speed and the apex on that corner but he didn't have the perception about him to slow the fuck down when there is a car he has gained a SHIT LOAD of ground on in 2-3 seconds?
Like I said, it's a 60mph+ chicane but what you dont expect is a car to turn into the chicane and stop in the middle doing about 25mph, if you pull in you wait or pull on to the grass.
|
am4nf
Member
Registered: 27th Jul 08
Location: South Ayrshire Drives: Corsa Sport
User status: Offline
|
Also the civic driver shouldnt have braked either, he should have launched out the way
|
Twiggy
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 04
User status: Offline
|
His V-tec kicked in reverse
|
