Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Why does it need to be modified or even for that matter competitive. Can you not have enjoyment on a budget using something that is fairly quick standard but not expensive to locate and buy bits for?
Modifying is massively more expensive than just buying and using.
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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But where's the fun in that?
I've worked out that i've got another £3k to spend on my Corsa till i can say it's done. Plus another £1k on my Astra to get that running to how i want it and looking how i want it.
Better to spend it on cars where you can see where your money is going than on drugs and booze every night.
Although i still haven't worked out which is more dangerous.........
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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hehe Steve... I know that feeling...
I want to buy ...
Full Cage (strip the car while at it)
Bucket Seats
Harnesses
Bigger Brakes
Thicker Rear ARB
Thicker Rear Torsion bar
New bushes all round.
Stiffer lower front springs
Group N engine mounts
Throttle Bodies
High Comp Pistons
Head work
Wilder cams
Standalone management, mapped to spec.
at that point I think i'd be happy, but i'd of just kissed good bye to 3k if not more.
Though it would be roughly 190-200 bhp, in something that weighs around 750-800 kg... and handle like it's on rails...
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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I'm only going for about 140bhp. Not bothering with TB's. But trying to get the weight down to 750kg.
If i don't smash it up this year on a track then maybe next year. Only time will tell.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE
But where's the fun in that?
The fun is that you get out there with the car and don't worry about buying stuff just so it works. Improving the car is OK, but building on a budget is no ideal, particularly if you miss events because you need to spend money. I wasted a load of cash on a Corsa I didn't even end up getting running, sold for bits, so my advice now would be use first, spend money later. Ultimately, using it is more fun than looking at it wondering when it'll be working.
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by Ian]
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Yeh I agree with Ian. I think it's fair enough to replace EVERYTHING if you have the budget to do it...
So from the start, the whole lot is planned out and you know what every part will be and get it all and then fit it all.
Really dumb to constantly think 'this will be the best car in the world once it's finished', but buy a couple of parts, then have to wait for ages till you can get the next parts, then longer for the next parts etc...
As it'll be forever till it's finished. Plus generally when you're on a tighter budget you'll go for a cheaper option first (engine mod or suspension or brakes etc) then later need to / want to replace it anyway.
Definately better to have the budget to do it all first, or buy something semi decent to start with and then buy part after part over time... so that you can have fun on track in it, even before it's completed.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
so my advice now would be use first, spend money later. Ultimately, using it is more fun than looking at it wondering when it'll be working.
And also, agreeing with Ian's last comment. Generally only after 'using it' do you realise what really needs to be done with it, what really needs to be improved.
You may spend loads on the engine, but then get on track and think the suspension is a joke, or spend loads on suspension and it'd of been fairly adequate at the start. Plus you can compare from how it was at the start to how it is when it's done, able to see the key improvement.
Finally, the thing that will probably get the car the fastest, is you. Becoming the best driver you can on track and learning the limits of your car. If you roll onto track with a fully sorted car, but it's your first track day in it, and it's cost you £15,000 - you're not going to want to find the limits and probably potter around in it  wasting all the hard earned money on the super special upgraded bits.
I've seen so many cars like this. The driver never takes them on track (or has never even been on a track day ever!) until they're fully complete. So they sit on their drive or in the work shop as a project, spend years making it awesome, loads of power, loads of mods, on paper it'll be the best thing on track! They turn up and go 'fairly fast' but nothing amazing, not getting anywhere near the abilities of what the car could do. Making it all a bit of a waste of money.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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The point about building it to be the best was my problem, everything I bought or wanted was top dollar, so I ended up not actually buying a lot of it, which slowed it down and I eventually just realised that the car was going to cost £20k which I didn't have so I sold the bits and made back enough to paint the GSi.
I would always say use it first and foremost.
And yes, another good point, the driver is the component which needs the most investment - in practice!
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by Ian]
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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My 1st track day was at Cadwell park in my mates MK2 Astra 1.8 SXi that he bought for £50. Spent a further £750 on wheels, brakes and suspention.
There was this Lotus Elise pottering around and we were all over taking him. It wasn't new either.
I supose it's each to their own. For me it's Suspention and a bit more Power. Thats all i want from my Corsa.
I bet when my turbo is sorted my Astra (tow car) will be faster than my Corsa It already handles better than it 
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
And yes, another good point, the driver is the component which needs the most investment - in practice!
Thats what i need and really want to do. go on a track day and have someone at the side of me teaching things i don't yet know.
Anyone can "put their foot down" but not everyone can do it smoothly and safely and be quick at it.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE
My 1st track day was at Cadwell park in my mates MK2 Astra 1.8 SXi that he bought for £50. Spent a further £750 on wheels, brakes and suspention.
There was this Lotus Elise pottering around and we were all over taking him. It wasn't new either.
I supose it's each to their own. For me it's Suspention and a bit more Power. Thats all i want from my Corsa.
yeh exactly steve, so many people think about cars as in pub stats / on the road when they talk about track days.
It's only people who've been on track that know the truth about how one car can quite easily beat another car. Like if you said in general chat, a Astra 1.8 beat a Elise they'd all laugh at you! say you were on crack.
The only reason you do need some power on track however, is that track days don't let you over take into or through bends (which is good as it keeps it safe) - but if you have someone who holds you up and is slow through the bends, but then blast down the straights and don't let you pass, it's highly frustating and annoying.
If you watch this vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fmxP5iaD0s&feature=user
about 33 secs in, theres a black clio 182 cup, fully sorted with coil over suspension and everything, big brakes, engine mods!
Watch as I have to brake hard (to not overtake him during a 'non overtake zone') even though i'm carrying ALOT more speed. Then have to sit behind him through the corner... then watch as we exit the bend, how he tries to initially RACE me to the next corner (chicane). 
These people make me laugh, I'm obviously quicker put your indicator on, pull over, come off the gas and let me pass.
This is the reason you need to have some pace down the straights! as sadly on track days thats the only place you overtake, and unless you have nice people who pull over when you sit on their bumper through the bends, they'll just keep blasting away down the straights and holding you up on the bends.
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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Thats true about carring the speed coz there were 2 E30's fully stripped and caged but i was able to keep up with them. However i don't know what engine was in it or what suspention they had.
But after that day i was hooked. A month later i bought my Corsa and let the fun begin.
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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Ian is on the same page as me....
Buying something that works from the outset is a better plan.
I dont understand why someone would choose to look for a mix and match car/engine to build.
Using a car IS more fun than shelling out to build one.
I learned that with my Corsa.
I had it for about 4 years.... did about 5 trackdays.
I bought the pug for 400, spent a bit just stripping/caging etc and did about 10 trackdays in under a year.
Robin - you make fabricating suspension mounts a doddle, and cheap. Its not something it want to do just because...
Its your money, your idea though... just trying to convince you to spend all this money that is going on car/engine/bodging on a single working car.... then keep it running
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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I don't earn enough to buy a car which is quick from the outset.
The car also needs to be presentable, not some sheddy 205, it'll be stickered up and needs to show what we can do here, rather than looking like something I've thrown together in my shed.
Timescale doesn't bother me, I can use Broster's, Paul's, any number of cars, which would give me more time to do mine right first time.
I see what you're all saying, but that's not what I asked for.
Adam, the reason behind mixing and matching is because the engine I want to use is all alloy, we do lots of bits for it, it'll show off what we can do, make lots of power and be better than 90% of the other engines I could build, for no more money.
Putting a random engine into the car it's not made for isn't hard, it's a case of making some mounts and getting it in, nothing more to it.
Like I say, I'd rather do it right, and do it once, not spend £2k on one engine only to replace it with a £5k one in 6 months.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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You should've been more precise at the start of the thread you ask us for
quote:
I have a plan for the engine, whatever the car is, but it MUST be RWD.
Ideally, I'd want something which you could pick up for a few of hundred quid, in solid, almost rot free form.
It needs to be light, cheap, and RWD, so throw some ideas at me, it doesn't even need to be a looker
Perhaps you should've said, your budget, your engine plan etc from the start. and you'd get better responses.
In your original statement at the start you said it doesn't need to be a looker... now you're saying it has to look good enough to be a demo car for your company. Make your mind up mate.
Sounds like you need to sit down, and think about what you really want from the start, what your realistic budget is and exact requirements... then work from there.
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The point about building it to be the best was my problem, everything I bought or wanted was top dollar, so I ended up not actually buying a lot of it, which slowed it down and I eventually just realised that the car was going to cost £20k which I didn't have so I sold the bits and made back enough to paint the GSi.
I would always say use it first and foremost.
And yes, another good point, the driver is the component which needs the most investment - in practice!
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by Ian]
and this is my problem
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by jr]
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Baskey
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Registered: 31st May 06
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My misses is selling an old skool vauxhall vx/490, its abit of a barge but rwd and doubt it would weight much when stripped. Looks cool as fuck as well and has a lareg bay
Or id buy a ph1 clio 172 and be quicker than alot of stuff with 'motorsport' parts
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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if its going to be a demo car why do you have to afford it?
Robin - fitting a non standard engine into a different bay isnt as easy as you make it out
You make it sound as if its a 20min job
How does a Manta strike you? Can get them cheap enough, but just have to look out for rotters..... will look good once tidied up a bit.
Capri?
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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this might grate you a bit... but reading your last post just makes it sound as if your wanting a nice looking 'different' car over a cheaper, more suited car.
Do you want a trackcar, or a trailor car 
just buy a 205 ebay special, hit it with a few choice JAMsport bits, sticker it up and abuse it
Am I annoying you yet?
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Yeh I agree with AK, also it now sounds like you want to build a 'Show' track car, rather than a 'track car'.
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
Robin - fitting a non standard engine into a different bay isnt as easy as you make it out
If the space is there, it's a case of making mounts...
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Yeh I agree with AK, also it now sounds like you want to build a 'Show' track car, rather than a 'track car'.
Is Broster's a 'show' track car?
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by AK
this might grate you a bit... but reading your last post just makes it sound as if your wanting a nice looking 'different' car over a cheaper, more suited car.
Do you want a trackcar, or a trailor car
I want something which shows off what we can do, not what other people can sell me...
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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It's not a demo car as such anyway, but Jamie, Mark and Paul are all building cars, they ALL need to look presentable if they're stickered up
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AK
Member
Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
quote:
Originally posted by AK
Robin - fitting a non standard engine into a different bay isnt as easy as you make it out
If the space is there, it's a case of making mounts...
aye, and then the rest....... prop/gearbox/shafts/wiring/cooling etc etc
[Edited on 05-03-2008 by AK]
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