chr15barn3s
Member
Registered: 5th Oct 03
Location: Farnborough
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
it very gay
ross puts his argument across well though
 i agree
I know it sounds a bit petty but thats how it works and if your entitled to it then you should get something out of it.
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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locked 
i cant belive how narrow minded some of them are on there, they are agruming agaist the law because its allways fun to jump on a bandwagon, despite whats right
makes me so 
that james8v come across as a right cock
he's probery gutted as he owns a 6n polo, and is still wondering when his pedal box is going to snap in half
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Rus
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 05
Location: SE London, Kent
User status: Offline
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why can't they just take the picture(s) down and apolgise. end of story then
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StuartVRS
Member
Registered: 9th Feb 03
Location: Bromley Common, Greater London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rus
why can't they just take the picture(s) down and apolgise. end of story then
they probably could, but even then Icy should still be entitled to some form of compensation for illegal use of his image.
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Greg_M
Member
Registered: 2nd Sep 03
Location: Grantham, Lincolnshire
User status: Offline
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te link doesn't work for me 
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vibrio
Banned
Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rus
why can't they just take the picture(s) down and apolgise. end of story then
because he has already used it 
if you rob a bank then give the money back do you get off the crime
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Planty02
Member
Registered: 5th Mar 05
Location: Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by Rus
why can't they just take the picture(s) down and apolgise. end of story then
because he has already used it
if you rob a bank then give the money back do you get off the crime
thats a very good argument there
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Icy
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 01
Location: Edinburgh Drives: Mk3 Golf Gti
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thread stil there jus read it all now
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Slammed_Corsa
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Registered: 30th Oct 05
Location: Greenock, Inverclyde
User status: Offline
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I completely agree with icy on this issue you 
He should be getting paid since it is being used in an advertisment. The picture is legally copyrighted and therefore official property of the ice man.
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rustyarchs
Member
Registered: 29th Aug 04
Location: scotland
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by rustyarchs
is this true??
''ok, there are a number of factors to consider here.
a. a photographer who takes a photo, owns that photo.
b. a photo of a car owned by somebody has logical rights to the use of that photo.
tom / lowlife / 4low should have asked if it was ok to use your photo to advertise, correct....
BUT...
if you make profit from that photo, you will have lowlife to answer to. not in this case. Ian never sold the picture, he is claiming for breach of copyright
if someone wants to use a photo of yours for advertising purposes, you are entitled to compensation. lowlife is then entitled to claim compensation from you, for making profit from a photo of his car (without his prior permission). owner of the car is no entitled to anything in this case.
lets be illustrative for a moment.
for example, if someone wanted to use a photo that id taken of my brothers car for an advert, i would expect to be asked, as its my photo.
i decide, without asking simon, that yes, use the photo, and ill have some royalties, thankyou.
simon would be entitled to claim from me, at least a percentage of the value gained from the photo iv taken.
internet intellectual rights and advertising is funny business but the basics are thus.
1. a photographer has rights to a photo he takes.
2. a person has rights if their person is contained in any photo, or a distinctive item (such as a custom vehicle) owned by them in a photo, or if they have not previously agreed to waive their rights.''
could the guy counter claim and get money of him if icy is succesful?? no see above
as above
was wondering as the guy sounded like he knew what he was talking about
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ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Slammed_Corsa
I completely agree with icy on this issue you
He should be getting paid since it is being used in an advertisment. The picture is legally copyrighted and therefore official property of the ice man.
The fuckers even had the cheek to crop the image off so that Icy's watermark was hidden 
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Nismo
untill he becomes a pro he cant do anything about it imo.
once its on the net its public content.
Both completely incorrect. The law protects the copyright holder, regardless of their employment status.
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MatG
Member
Registered: 26th Apr 02
Location: Birmingham UK
User status: Offline
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No disrespect to you Icy
There was a way to do this and I feel you may have chosen the wrong way .
It seems to me after reading the post that this Tom is the equivalent to say Lee Mitchel on here. A member of the board that is doing other members a bit of deal and helping people out in the process. I get the impression they are failing out with you over it due to who it is rather than actual issue at hand.
Now you could say they have a point in what they are saying, that maybe you shouldn't give him grief over a pic you took, but at the same time he should of at the very least asked your permission.
However my take on how to deal with the situation would of been to have a quiet would with Tom and talk about maybe doing some more pics int he future for him, and maybe striking up a good relationship with him to get a bit of a discount or indeed one free. Something that he would need to decide or offer though and not feel forced into the situation like you are now. I also would have thought about the implications a little.
As you are technically just starting out maybe it would be better to make friends and contacts that may require your services in the future rather than come across as a bit of nightmare to deal with? I think the same about Ross and his Pipercross photo. Fair enough you need to make a living but if it was me having threats about copyright shouted at me I certainly wouldn't deal with that person again.
There are too many people that can take your job in this world, so you do need to show some flexibility and understanding to keep your lines of work open in the future.
I still think by them asking permission int he first place would have been an easier way to solve this problem.
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vibrio
Banned
Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by MatG
No disrespect to you Icy [snip long quote]
yes however you know fuck all
I don't have a problem with pipercross, they have a license to use my photos POTN do not.
not standing up for your rights once means that you lay yourself open to people saying "you gave him it for free". The fact is that this guy never even asked ICY if he could use his pic.
p.s Lee would not steal someones pic.
[Edited on 08-02-2006 by Ian]
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Edd
Member
Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline
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report them to F.A.C.T 
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Ally
Member
Registered: 2nd Jul 03
Location: Pontypool Drives: a Skoda
User status: Offline
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Icy take legal action
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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christ im glad i chose a seat over a vw now seems a lot of snobbery associated with the vw badge
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Icy
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 01
Location: Edinburgh Drives: Mk3 Golf Gti
User status: Offline
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mat the thing is i had no clue that guy was on the site or alot of folk knew him.
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rightfulnokia
Member
Registered: 27th Mar 03
Location: midlands
User status: Offline
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i still say icy wins this arguemtn hands down!
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
not standing up for your rights once means that you lay yourself open to people saying "you gave him it for free".
I do agree, and I also think that photographers particularly should make efforts to protect their rights, however there is the issue that Matt raised, that anyone starting out really shouldn't basically now force this guy in to a corner of paying himself out of a situation which he unwittingly got in to. That won't be forgotten.
One thing that does concern me greatly is the disclarity with which the picture are offered. In another thread on here Ed has asked for pics and Icy has freely volunteered them, now there may be more information with the pictures on the Fotki site or wherever, but on reading that thread alone it may appear initially that Icy doesn't care about protecting his rights.
I'm not even comfortable with levying the charge after the picture has already been used. Perhaps a request to not use his work in future, but if the price of £200 had been suggested before the image was used that guy would have certainly declined. Its not a fantastic pic as there's clearly a reflection of another car present.
I'm all for being rewarded for being work professionally but unless I had been comissioned to photograph a show, kept the images out of the public eye (and I don't mean not available, I mean not seen at all), then I personally wouldn't consider the pictures to be worth the asking prices.
No mag is going to buy pics which have already been over message boards, I don't want to buy a mag which is full of old pictures. If you want the rate for the job, take the pics them sell them straight away and make the money.
If you want to take pics because you enjoy taking the pic and documenting the show, and you want people on the web to be part of that, don't quote the law after the event.
Far more clarity needed. And I don't mean legally, I mean what photography is in your life. You don't see any other mag photographers uploading all their work on the internet and then complaining when it gets used. Thats not how it works commercially.
Its a terrible shame that we may lose show pics, but if you want to turn it in to business, so be it. Personally photography has always been, and will probably continue to be, a hobby for me. If it were a business it would be no fun, so I don't go there.
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vibrio
Banned
Registered: 28th Feb 01
Location: POAH
User status: Offline
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Ian. the chan is only going by what is recomended by the NUJ for breach of copyright. he has not picked a figure out of thin air. I suspect Ian would have given him the picture to use but thats the point is it. the point is that a breach of copyright has occured. Ian is only doing what is legally his right to do. would you be saying that if a large company like pepsi had used an image for global campain without asking.
as for Ed he asked and his site is not there to make money and ICY gets his site mentioned. I have done the same
[Edited on 08-02-2006 by vibrio]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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i personally think yes technically he is correct, he had broken copyright etc.
but i peronally wouldnt bother pursuing it
it would however piss me off that he shopped my sig out on it
[Edited on 08-02-2006 by Corsa_Sam]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
would you be saying that if a large company like pepsi had used an image for global campain without asking.
Thats another issue - this isn't a big company, its a guy selling stuff to his mates from what I can gather.
Its all far too informal for me to start throwing policy and law about. I think if you want to do that then you need to be clear from the outset and not Eds mate but not bra guy.
I can totally see the legal aspect of it, and the shopping out of the sig is quite bad, but a more diplomatic approach of stating the position, quoting the law, quoting the prices and then passing the outcome over to the guy would have said the same thing but smelt less like opportunist money grabbing.
He's clearly done wrong - I just think that the approach in recompense is not as wise as it could have been.
[Edited on 08-02-2006 by Ian]
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Corsa_Carl
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 04
Location: Darlington
User status: Offline
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this topic makes the vw sound and look so thick the way u lot are all typing up your essays lol
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Essays are good. Topped for Ross.
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