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Author Turbo Advice again needed :D
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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4th Apr 04 at 18:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

right i have picked up the turbo and manifold off the V6 and ready to get on with things
Oil feel and return are sorted (Using the full SAAB setup)
Intercooler sorted (Mates got a spare off ERST)
5th injector isent really a big thing easy to do
Pipe work (have a few friending at Powerflow who will help)

ONLY thing i am stuck on is how the standard ECU is going to run with this.
and the main worry is the Airflow meter how will this react to the extra air

can i remap the standard ECU so airflow meter will not go crazy?
littletriad
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Registered: 22nd Jun 03
Location: Oldbury, West Midlands
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4th Apr 04 at 22:31   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

u need a new ecu like the DTA does or a unichip
blackula
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Registered: 26th Apr 03
Location: Cheshire
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4th Apr 04 at 22:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

You have Vauxhall 2.5 V6 ECU and AFM ?

Why not get SAAB 9-5 V6 Turbo ECU and AFM from the BF308 V6 Turbo lump.

LukeGSi
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Registered: 9th Dec 03
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5th Apr 04 at 06:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

me thinks you will definatly need an aftermarket ECU wont you??
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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5th Apr 04 at 07:37   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The point of the 5th injector is that it hacks the fueling. It adds the extra fuel that you need when on boost. Depends if you want a turbo with maybe a bit more power, or if you want it for decent performance. If you want the decent performance you need to get a proper aftermarket management system, like DTA for a start.

If your after more than a little boost then you'll probably want a better IC as well; IIRC the ERST one isn't all that good.
bradfincham
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Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
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5th Apr 04 at 07:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

you need something like dta or omex to run that kinda set up id say??
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 07:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i have been reading up and you dont need to, you can use a 5th injector which just adds alittle more fuel when needed, as i am not going to stupid boost maybe 6psi or somthing
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 07:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i only want little boost
its a matter of getting this thing working and then go from there, and then if i want more spend more.
this is about trying somthing new i havent done before.

i am just worryed about the added air side, as fuel is sorted but the 5th.
will the airflow meter just run it? and will tell the engine to add more fuel? (max the injectors can give and 5th will add the rest?)
bradfincham
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Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
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5th Apr 04 at 07:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

5th injector i think is a cheap way aroudn the problem!
Look at the nova gte way of turboing that courtenay use!
Can be unreliable ive heard but havent got a clue about a v6!!
your the first for sure id say!
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 07:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

well how to Courtenay do it?
what do they do about Nova GTE airflow meter?
as i can not see them using a full new ECU? just a 5th to keep cost down...
a couple of head gaskets to lower the comprestion?

anywhere i can look and read about it?
broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
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5th Apr 04 at 07:58   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

carnoisseur craig has fitted a 5th injector to his 1.4 16v turbo, what did he do about fitting it, maybe check with him to get some ideas?
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 07:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

he got the full engine off a mate?
i will contact him about it
i am not after a 5th injector i know what to do there its the air flow meter
broster
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Registered: 6th Dec 02
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5th Apr 04 at 08:02   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by BeArDy
he got the full engine off a mate?
i will contact him about it
i am not after a 5th injector i know what to do there its the air flow meter


but he had to do alot of work to it from what i can remember as it wasnt in the best of order and he dropped the turbo.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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5th Apr 04 at 08:25   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

AFM should be ok, thats a guess though.

Under boost you need a higher air fuel ratio, thats where the 5th injector comes in, else it would run lean under boost, as the ecu would be fueling for n/a. You'll probably want to raise your fuel pressure a bit as well. Courtenay use a 5th injector to hack it. Its not actually a 5th injector for you either, its a 7th Will you need an 8th as well?
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 08:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

right now we are going some where

so need
7th injector
FSE Power valve thing (got one for a XE some where)
Air/Fuel Ratio gauge

AFM should be ok as it can only tell the ECU how much air is coming in and the ECU will tell injectors to add more fuel which is still not going to be the right amount which the 7th injector will sort out

carnoisseurcraig
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Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
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5th Apr 04 at 09:49   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

yeah dude. Thats the cheap way of doing it. It does work. You will get better performance out of a full remap but this way is still pretty dam good. My air/fuel ratio is spot on.

car runs good with it. raced my mate in his punto turbo. it was close but the corsa was quicker. and thats with the hacked fuelling. it bounces off the limiter in 5th no problems.
vibrio
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5th Apr 04 at 11:20   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by carnoisseurcraig
yeah dude. Thats the cheap way of doing it. It does work. You will get better performance out of a full remap but this way is still pretty dam good. My air/fuel ratio is spot on.

car runs good with it. raced my mate in his punto turbo. it was close but the corsa was quicker. and thats with the hacked fuelling. it bounces off the limiter in 5th no problems.



what is your AF:R. I'm assuming it's running rich. around 0.75-8 lambda
Ditch
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Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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5th Apr 04 at 11:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by BeArDy
right i have picked up the turbo and manifold off the V6 and ready to get on with things
Oil feel and return are sorted (Using the full SAAB setup)
Intercooler sorted (Mates got a spare off ERST)
5th injector isent really a big thing easy to do
Pipe work (have a few friending at Powerflow who will help)

ONLY thing i am stuck on is how the standard ECU is going to run with this.
and the main worry is the Airflow meter how will this react to the extra air

can i remap the standard ECU so airflow meter will not go crazy?



what about the compression ratios?


Id say fitting a 7th injector AND getting a fully mappable ECU would be a good set-up.

as miles mentions, you may even need an 8th injector?

Couldnt you just get larger injectors to replace the existing ones? Thus eliminating the need to bodge one or two extra ones into the inlet / throttle body

this would be the best set-up IMO
Ditch
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Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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5th Apr 04 at 11:40   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

airflow meter wont be a problem if you get a nice fully mappable ECU
Kerry
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Registered: 5th Oct 01
Location: Norwich
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5th Apr 04 at 12:36   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
Its not actually a 5th injector for you either, its a 7th


u took the words right out my mouth
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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5th Apr 04 at 14:33   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

We had this conversation before, if you fit bigger injectors you'll just flow more fuel, but the injectors wouldn't give more fuel under boost. By suggesting you might need an 8th injectors was because its a V6, i dont know if a single injector would feed all 6 cylinders equally.
Ditch
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Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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5th Apr 04 at 14:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

so you cant control how much fuel the injectors spray, and when, using a mappable ECU?
carnoisseurcraig
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Registered: 4th Jun 03
Location: Inverness
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5th Apr 04 at 15:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

if your using a fully mappable ecu then you wont need any need for anymore injectors as the ecu will fuel enough under boost if mapped correctly.



Ditch
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Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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5th Apr 04 at 15:30   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

mates rover 216 turbo conversion is set up with a Uni-chip and a 5th injector

can smell petrol inside the car when under full boost
BeArDy
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Registered: 7th Aug 00
Location: Manchester
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5th Apr 04 at 15:32   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ok how about a 7th(and maybe a 8th if needed) injector
with the below chip :-

MF2 FUEL DRIVER.

This unit is for adjusting the fuelling on any ECU controlled engine and all the adjustments are made by screwdriver, no lap tops or specialized equipment are needed, although highly recommended to be set on a rolling road with a gas analyzer. The problems for a lot of people, especially those living in countries where sophisticated test equipment , programmable management systems or fitting agents are not available, they are severely restricted in what modifications they can make, as no matter what specialist head,cams etc they have fitted, unless they can alter the fuelling, at the very least, the conversion is never going to work. The only downside with this unit is that it needs to operate on extra injectors fitted and cannot be used on the standard ones connected to the standard ECU. This also has a plus side in so far as your standard fuelling is not interfered with and this unit only comes in for additional fuelling requirements, most commonly it is used on supercharged and turbo charged conversions, this being the unit we use on all our supercharger conversions. This unit could be used on normally aspirated but phone us to ask application for advise
The MF2 comes complete with simple wiring instructions on how to fit and adjust. There are 8 adjusting screws so that you can set the fuelling at 8 different rpm levels. The unit can also be adjusted as to where the first rpm fuelling change is done and also the gap to the next rpm setting level.




this isent a expensive as a full remapablue ECU but kind of what all i would use the map for?

How this setup sound to everyone?

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