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Tiger

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Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 10:37

I get better MPG (3-4mpg) and better pick up on my 330 E46 using 97ron fuel. I dont get upset if I can only put regular 95 in though.

Steve

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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15th Dec 13 at 11:07

Theres no chance in hell that you are able to perform tests accurate and conclusive enough to make claims such as "3-4mpg better"

Nic Barnes

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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 11:48

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Theres no chance in hell that you are able to perform tests accurate and conclusive enough to make claims such as "3-4mpg better"

why not?

John

Member

Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 12:33

Because you could be 3 or 4 mpg different over a tank using the same type of fuel each time, stuck in traffic 1 day of the month or something equally as irrelevant could be enough to make a big difference.

gazza808

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Registered: 30th Jun 08
Location: Peterborough
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 14:10

My bike miss fires in the mid range on 95,
On v power nice and crisp all the way through the rev range, that's what it's been setup on,

Have no issues with the tesco 99 stuff either if I'm caught short.

SVM 286

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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: pain
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 14:51

quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B

quote:
Originally posted by SVM 286
4 star leaded and when it was phased out, their Super unleaded was the best alternative available. And it was noticeable.

But also because I have had a number of cars that have all behaved better, running on Shell fuel.

Im kinda waiting for the new generation to ask what 4 Star fuel is, or 2 Star

I'm with you I think Shell is the best. I try never to buy BP, mainly due to the lies they told in the 80's about bringing fuel costs down. Most expensive f**kers out there, still...

They are thieves aren't they Daimo. I don't know why they are so sodding dear. Their fuel is nothing special and the last time I checked, their 'Super' variant was pish as far as RON was concerned.

I really miss 4 Star

2 Star was wicked too because it was so cheap. And for certain cars, especially bangers that could get away with running a lower octane rated fuel without pinking or power loss, it was terrific for saving money.

5 Star was just awesome though. I wish you could get it now.
Texaco 5 Star was all my old man used to put in his twin carb P6 Rover 2000. It lapped the stuff up and went like the clappers. It just wasn't the same car on 4 Star. And 2 Star was about as much use to it as paraffin.

It was quite hard to come by though as not every Texaco sold it.
It was a fairly controversial fuel in the mid 70's for a while too because Ferrari made a complaint about McLaren using an illegal higher octane 'special' race fuel in their cars.
It caused all sorts of problems for them (which presumably Ferrari loved and was obviously the desired effect), but turned out to be completely legal 101/102 (can't remember which it was) octane rated 5 Star Texaco pump fuel that was sold to Joe Public.

I've always fancied picking myself up a couple of barrels of Elf Race fuel, but at £5.64 a litre, it's a little prohibitive

craig8

Premium Member

Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 18:10

quote:
Originally posted by Dave

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Yes as John said its cheap to act as a loss leader there is no difference in normal fuel from supermarkets and normal fuel from shell. Tesco is esso anyway

http://ask.metafilter.com/131490/Mythbust-supermarket-petrol-for-me-please

Tesco is Esso when it's an Esso petrol station with a Tesco Express attached, this is different from Tesco petrol stations.

Tescos 99 isn't Esso, it is, or at least was, from a firm called Greenergy.

2013:
February - Greenergy concludes branded wholesaler agreement with Esso and begins supplying Esso dealerships in Northern England, North Wales and Scotland.

Taken from http://www.greenergy.com/company/milestones.html

E36 328

FlaFFy_91

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 18:20

Go to tesco. Get some derv. Go to shell get some derv.

Pour then into a glass next to each other

The colour is completely different
The smell is completely different
And when burnt in a car it smells different out the exhaust.

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 20:42

Didn't realise you could buy cars from Tesco and Shell petrol stations.

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 20:43

Didn't realise you could pour cars into glasses either actually.

John

Member

Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 20:56

He won't get that ed but I think he's been sniffing a bit too much petrol.

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 21:11

He's probably the local loon. Who goes to petrol stations pouring fuel into glasses comparing the nose and colour?

FlaFFy_91

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 22:52

quote:
Originally posted by ed
He's probably the local loon. Who goes to petrol stations pouring fuel into glasses comparing the nose and colour?

Didn't say I did. John said there's no difference between the 2 fuels.... I'm saying go and do that and you will clearly see the difference and smell the difference.
Simple as that really...

craig8

Premium Member

Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline

15th Dec 13 at 23:15

40,000 miles/year in a transit filling up from tesco and shell and I've never noticed any difference in running, power or smell, never had any fuel issues either

Used mainly tesco for over a year as it was local at the time and shell for around 2 years now as that's the closest to where I live now

Maybe not a widespread sample but just my own experience on the subject as someone who deals with diesel engines and fuel issues daily

E36 328

DaveyLC

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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 09:04

quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B
Course they can . There will be a standard they have to meet as a legal requirement, but they can add what they want. The fuel isn't the same, nor will it comes from the same hole in the ground.

It'll be refined, shipped, and adjusted. Fuel in Shell, won't be the same chemical makeup as fuel from Esso. Similar yes, but the same, no.

[Edited on 14-12-2013 by Daimo B]

Seriously its all bollocks..

Why don't you try following a refilling lorry from your local Tesco back to the refinery then do the same with a Shell, BP and Total..

Some will introduce more anit-foaming agents if their tanks are bigger, or slightly more detergent, others more tolulene or other additives to stimulate the octane number but again that's all bullshit too because the additives are unstable, they deteriorate at an exponential rate so if its 99ron, it will drop to 98 very quickly but not as quickly as 98 will drop down to 97 etc.

But 'the bit that goes bang' has to be chemically the same.

Kyle T

Premium Member

Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 09:46

Same thread came up on Scoobynet funnily enough. There's a letter from a Tesco man saying that the Momentum fuel is natively 99RON and not just boosted by additives.

There are also a couple of data-sheets available.

quote:

Shell..
http://www.formulastudent.com/Libraries/Documents/ShellVPowerGasolineMSDS.sflb.ashx

Tesco.
http://www.tesco.com/Momentum99/productBenefits-specs.asp

Lotus Elise 111R

Impreza WRX STi

DaveyLC

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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 10:02

The RON numbering system is a farce too.. '100' was supposed to be perfect (i.e. 100%) knock resistance but modern fuels i.e. LPG is 'off the chart' so they've had to introduce bigger numbers

so you really can give "110%"

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 11:17

But you're not really that interested in the RON of diesel or LPG are you? Seems to only really be an issue in petrol engines.

DaveyLC

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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 11:39

Diesel engines run on pre-ignition (no spark plug), the injection of the fuel is the ignition, so not an issue.. Important for any Petroleum combustion engine though (LPG or unleaded).

[Edited on 16-12-2013 by DaveyLC]

big eck

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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 13:03

You seem a bit clued up on this davey so what's your take on shell being better than tesco momentum??? Any truth in it or would I be better using the shell all the time???

DaveyLC

Member

Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline

16th Dec 13 at 13:25

The RON number is what you're interested in, If you've got a car with a high C/R that has been tuned specifically for a higher octane fuel, its turbo/super-charged & running more than standard boost or you just like driving in very, very hot weather then any difference you see between fuels will be marginal or simply "in your head"...

[Edited on 16-12-2013 by DaveyLC]

Simon_16v

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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
User status: Offline

17th Dec 13 at 21:53

In the states the Shell fuel has a terrible octane rating. Their regular is 87, Plus is 89 and the V-Power at a whopping 93

John

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Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline

17th Dec 13 at 22:01

Different measurements are used in Europe and the US.

alan-g-w

Member

Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline

17th Dec 13 at 23:39

quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
Diesel engines run on pre-ignition (no spark plug), the compression of the fuel is the ignition, so not an issue.. Important for any Petroleum combustion engine though (LPG or unleaded).

[Edited on 16-12-2013 by DaveyLC]

EFA

FlaFFy_91

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline

18th Dec 13 at 00:15

quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w

quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
Diesel engines run on pre-ignition (no spark plug), the compression of the fuel is the ignition, so not an issue.. Important for any Petroleum combustion engine though (LPG or unleaded).

[Edited on 16-12-2013 by DaveyLC]

EFA

Think he was more right the first time. Diesel engines compress air to heat it up. Then at the highest compression point inject the fuel into the hot air creating the combustion.... Don't they? :s

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