Ben G
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Disgusted. I hope massa crashes into him and kills him.
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Cavey
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Registered: 11th Nov 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cole
Lewis is playing at $100m that's why he's gone tbh
Not gonna argue that, but he's on fortunes anyway, what's another few million on top? Surprised he's turned his back on Mcclaren given they raised him essentially, but maybe he feels he's done all he needs there and wanted a new challenge? That'll probably be what he says anyway
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Rob_Quads
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Another way to look at it could be they have not put in him a winning car for 4 years so he wants a new challenge. Brawn is very good at making the most out of major rule changes which with the new engines etc in 2014 hes got a chance to do something again.
Apparently he'll earn much more sponsorship at Mercedes as MacLaren have lots of say over personal sponsorship and a lot of corporate things you also have to attend by contract.
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Daniel_Corsa
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Arrogant prick! Give Jenson lots of nice upgrades and leave Hamilton in the dark!
Wasn't for McLaren he wouldn't be in the sport. Hope he fails!
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Ryan
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Steve
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dont see the issue, its not like hes going to force india is it
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Kyle T
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Put it into perspective...
McLaren are hardly rocking the WDC/WCC tally over the last 10-20 years. They win races every season sure, but Hamilton wants more than just pole positions and race wins.
New Engine regulations are in 2014, and with Merc being a works team - that could end up being significant in the first few years of the 1.6 engines.
It's easy to say that Merc have been crap this year, but how would McLaren look if they didn't have Hamilton? Button has been average this year, and he's barely beating Rosberg in the WDC table.
We don't really know how good Rosberg is, MSC could be past it - so seeing NR/LH at Merc next year should be fascinating as Lewis is a known quantity in a good car.
Also, in 2009 when JB won the WDC - McLaren started the season a couple of seconds off the pace and struggled to get into Q3 regularly. LH scored the most points in the second section of the season, which suggests to me that Lewis is no slouch when it comes to developing a car and communicating things back to the engineers.
I've heard a rumour that Coca Cola are getting involved with LH/Mercedes so they'll be big money for the team.
Big Money
Works Engine
Top Driver
Surely in three years they can do something between them?
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kennySRi
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Hmm not the best news. Means schumi is definetly retiring (again) and i was hoping Hamilton would stay with McLaren forever, very surprised it has happened. On the plus though im a fan of mercedes and brawn so it could of been much worse, im still 'team hamilton' wherever he goes but i think it'll take a while to get a winning car.
Money is obviously a main reason here but as someone said, a new challenge could be what he wanted. If he wins some races in his first season with Mercedes it will prove how good he really is imo.
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Ben G
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mercedes don't actually have a bad car at all. it's very capable of winning races and is always topping the speed trap tables. they just seem to have a hell of a lot of reliability issues coupled with bad luck.
i hope lewis does very well at them. i also think rosberg is one of his best friends so that would be a great partnership there.
always liked the british team/british drivers that mclaren portrayed though, so will miss that.
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Cole
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Who is going to replace Perez mr sauber has said he would offer schumi a drive if he was available or will Estefan guiterrez from gp2 get the drive or maybe valsecchhi the gp2 champion and he won't be in gp2 as he is not allowed to race gp2 next season
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kennySRi
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Im the same ben, felt like it was a really good team and partnership but i also like Rosberg so as i said, it could of been much worse. Im sure he'll do well at mercedes and will definetly win the title within a few years.
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JonnyJ
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lol at the over reaction in here  You'd think he'd just signed for HRT!
I'm going to stick my neck on the line here and say this move will be better for Lewis than it will for Mclaren, unless they make an unbelievable car next year, they will not be winning the WDC next season, not a chance with Perez and Button. Ones too slow and the other is unproven in a top team. Its ok getting on the podium using clever tyre strategy but he wont get the chance to do that at Mclaren, he'll be expected to be in Q3, pushing for front 2 rows and locked in on tyre choice.
Meanwhile Lewis, the outright fastest (not most complete) driver in F1 goes to Mercedes, a team which will now rake it in in sponsors and supply their own engines, unlike Mclaren who will have to pay for thiers from next season. Not only that but Mercedes will build the team around Lewis, Mclaren are far too sentimental, thats why they struggle to win WDCs. Look at Red Bull, all built around Seb, same with Alonso at Ferrari. When Mclaren did win WDCs it was when they built it around one driver (Hamilton/Kovelienen).
Also there are big rule changes next season, as Kyle says it will favour Merc or Mclaren. Mclaren tend to struggle when big innovations are made whereas Brawn thrives on that.
A lot can change in a season, teams have gone from winning titles to doing nothing the next season and vice versa.
I stick by what i said earlier, this move will hit Mclaren far harder than it will hit Lewis.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
the outright fastest
Would like to see some stats to back that statement up.
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Mclaren who will have to pay for thiers from next season.
McLaren are doing their own.
I imagine next season will be scraped in terms of winning anything for Hamilton and Merc as the rule changes are minimal. Only in 2014 with the new engines (+ plus the stupid amount of other changes) will we see if Hamilton made the right choice. Certainly Merc appear to well ahead in their development, especially on engines, and Brawn has a hankering for spotting loopholes; so it could be another 2009 moment for them.
Although i do honestly believe the money was a huge factor in the decision and i guess a lot of it was spurred on by his celebrity based management company IXI - why he went with them over a dedicated sports management company i have no idea; does make you wonder what his end goal is.
Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Ron was still in charge; i suspect Hamilton would have signed another contract with them.
Still, onwards and upwards for McLaren and getting Perez in to replace Hamilton was a good decision; he's certainly got some skill. However McLaren are going to have to pull out something special for the '13/14 season though.
Interesting fact i found on another forum -
quote:
Button vs Hamilton (at McLaren over ~2yrs) -
Wins - JB 7, LH 9
Podiums (inc. wins) - JB 24, LH 21
Points - JB 603, LH 609
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JonnyJ
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Its an opinion Dom, you can back it up with facts unless you get the entire grid to line up in the same car, but I'm not the only one who thinks it, many drivers and ex drivers like Coulthard and Brundle think so too. Alonso fears him more than any other driver.
Dom, whats the points per race finishes ratio for both of them? Would be interested to know that. As everyone seems to give Lewis shit for crashing/not finishing the race yet hes still ahead of Button. He's been miles infront of him this season, he's be so unlucky with DNFs, none of them his fault and the team have also cost him race wins this season with shite pitstops and mechanical failure.
He should have at least another 50 points to what he has now. He should be leading the WDC.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Its an opinion Dom, you can back it up with facts unless you get the entire grid to line up in the same car, but I'm not the only one who thinks it, many drivers and ex drivers like Coulthard and Brundle think so too. Alonso fears him more than any other driver.
Would be interesting to see these articles/statements from Coulthard, Brundle and Alonso.
Although he hasn't managed to grab any of the fastest lap times this year (previous seasons he hasn't done too bad considering Seb's run).
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Dom, whats the points per race finishes ratio for both of them?
No idea, you'd have to work it out.
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Would be interested to know that. As everyone seems to give Lewis shit for crashing/not finishing the race yet hes still ahead of Button. He's been miles infront of him this season, he's be so unlucky with DNFs, none of them his fault and the team have also cost him race wins this season with shite pitstops and mechanical failure.
Pitstops and mechanical failures could have happen to both drivers, likewise with some of the DNFs. Luck of the draw, no?
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JonnyJ
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Could, but they have hit Lewis hard this year, especially as he was on for wins in most of the ones he's been punted out of and had troubles in the stops. Jenson hasnt been cost a win at any stage in the season i dont think, worst was a 2nd in Monza, and even then he'd have probably lost that to Perez.
Fair few times in commentary Coulthard has said "probably the fastest driver in F1 right now". Alonso said recently he fears Lewis more than any other driver, to take the title off him this season.
quote:
Vettel secured the drivers’ title in both 2010 and 2011, but Ferrari star Alonso believes Hamilton, who finished fifth in the standings last time out, is the better driver.
“Lewis is very fast, aggressive and totally focused, he is only interested in victory. Sebastian has not reached that level yet,” Alonso told German magazine Sport-Bild.
“I know he’s the double world champion, but he is still somewhat behind the level Lewis has set.”
Fastest laps dont really count this year, as they tend to be done by people who have done a different strategy and finish on the softer tyres on low fuel. Seen races where people like Di Resta/Kobayashi/Perez have got fastest lap, also note this season how he manages the gap when hes leading, never doing more than he has to to save tyres, but he can pull out a fastest lap on command if he needs to, he was doing this loads in Monza/Singapore. His qualifying is always strong though which best shows speed (car in optimum condition, one hot lap)
End of the day, through no fault of his own Hamilton isnt top of the WDC, hes had horrible luck this season. He's been near faultless. Only Alonso has matched him this season, but he's had the luck.
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Kyle T
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Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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The wikipedia results of LH vs JB do not do Lewis justice at all, but statistics don't lie - their very different approaches to F1 have brought similar results over the years they've driven together.
What's the qualifying scorecard look like? Hamilton is frequently 3/10ths to half a second quicker than Jenson, he held us own vs Alonso in 2007 despite being a rookie, he demolished Kovaleinen and next year will be an excellent test vs Rosberg.
Nobody can argue that Hamilton has had some stinking luck this season, and he should be winning the WDC as I type this - but it doesn't always work like that, so hence we'll be stuck with yet another statistic at the end of the season which probably doesn't reflect accurately on what happened.
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Kyle T
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Mclaren who will have to pay for thiers from next season.
McLaren are doing their own.
I honestly didn't know that, got source?
I'd be amazed if McLaren were going down the engine route, it's a money pit for them at this stage surely - and I'd heard semi-recent rumours of Honda making a return with McLaren as the works team.
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
The wikipedia results of LH vs JB do not do Lewis justice at all, but statistics don't lie - their very different approaches to F1 have brought similar results over the years they've driven together.
What's the qualifying scorecard look like? Hamilton is frequently 3/10ths to half a second quicker than Jenson, he held us own vs Alonso in 2007 despite being a rookie, he demolished Kovaleinen and next year will be an excellent test vs Rosberg.
Nobody can argue that Hamilton has had some stinking luck this season, and he should be winning the WDC as I type this - but it doesn't always work like that, so hence we'll be stuck with yet another statistic at the end of the season which probably doesn't reflect accurately on what happened.
Statistics can be bent to fuck and usually dont prove a whole lot, they never tell the full story, especially in F1. On outright speed, there no denying Lewis is faster than Jenson, he's proved it in Quali time and time again. As all round racers, they arent too far apart, but there is still a gap, you never hear Alonso for instance being worried about JB.
All I'll say is that if Mclaren only produce a car thats say, a similar level to this season, then they wont be winning much next season. JB, as lovely man as he his with dandruff free hair, isnt the man who can win races, consistently, without a much better car than the opposition.
Stats on PPR and Average finishing place when completing a GP that i just worked out:
Jenson
2010:
Races Finished: 17
Points: 214
PPR: 12.5
AV Place: 4th
2011
Races Finished: 17
Points: 270
PPR: 15.8
AV Place: 3rd
2012
Races Finished: 13
Points: 119
PPR: 9.1
AV Place: 5th/6th
Lewis
2010
Races Finished: 16
Points: 240
PPR: 15
AV Place: 3rd
2011
Races Finished: 16
Points: 227
PPR: 14.1
AV Place: 3rd
2012
Races Finished: 11
Points: 142
PPR: 12.9
AV Place: 4th
Means about as much as any stat but it does show that when he finishes, Lewis tends to finish higher than Jenson.
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Kyle T
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JB: 119
NR: 93
2012 WDC Table
Is the Mercedes THAT good, or is JB just pretty average? 
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JonnyJ
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Would've had even less if his team mate didnt have a dodgy car in Singapore 
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Mclaren who will have to pay for thiers from next season.
McLaren are doing their own.
I honestly didn't know that, got source?
I'd be amazed if McLaren were going down the engine route, it's a money pit for them at this stage surely - and I'd heard semi-recent rumours of Honda making a return with McLaren as the works team.
Sorry, i should have stated that it isn't 100% fact, rather a strong rumour that's been going round the paddock over the last few weeks.
The Honda rumour was getting thrown around last year but I really can't see that happening for 2013 as they would be pouring money into a single season engine design. If they were going to return then it'd be for the 2014 season. But Honda have said themselves that they aren't interested in returning, nor do they really have the funds and due to the ultra conservative path they've taken with their road engine development, i can't see anything that they could take away from F1 engine development.
McLaren on the other hand have been toying with the idea of doing their own engine for years, they have the cash and it would tie in nicely with their road production engines and Ron's big idea of creating a one-stop automotive power-house.
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Ben G
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new engines plan could now be scrapped 
http://thef1times.com/news/display/06795
bernie is a proper man doesn't like the noise they make so fuck the environment
[Edited on 29-09-2012 by Ben G]
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jrdn7
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I'd doubt the 2014 engine's will be scrapped, the lad who designs Renault's engines reckons the development plan is too far along at this point to call it off.
However I could see Honda come back in 2014, given how successful their run with the turbo units in the 1980's was.
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Daveskater
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I remember an interview with Bernie when the new engines were announced that he doesn't care what happens as long as it doesn't affect the sound.
It may be too far along to call off, but this is Bernie, he can do what he wants. Anyway, he was saying there about maybe just delaying it for now.
I've just been watching the 2002 review on sky f1 and Honda engines were constantly blowing up then
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