RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
User status: Offline
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Ian, I'll debate on each of the points raised tomorrow when Im at a computer,not on my phone-however,the curiosity you raised as to the circumstances as to where having gained a degree of car control experience by taking a skid pan course actually helped in a real world experience would be the time I was driving along the A43,the penultimate roundabout before the M40 has a petrol station off exit 3.It was a dry, clear and quiet night, I entered the roundabout at ca.30mph, as soon as I was at 9o'clock,the car oversteered,almost instantly passing 90degrees to the direction of travel-The highway code tells you to steer into a skid, a skid pan course teaches you that once you pass 90degrees to steer out of the skid-in doing so,the car straightened up,albeit travelling in reverse up the dual carriageway.Had I steered into the skid, I would have definitely hit the roundabout or gone off the embankment.As I was sat facing the wrong way on the road,50 or 60m up the road from the round about, a car did the same and went down the embankment,rolling on its way!! the cause-diesel all over the road,the entire roundabout. it wasn't a conditions issue, a weather issue or a speed issue, it was a diesel spill.
Finland has the lowest mortality level of 17-25 due to car accidents of any country within the European Continent. Their driving test includes a skid prevention and rescue practical section-there is proof enough that training increases driver ability.
I'll respond to your other points tomorrow
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SR91
Member
Registered: 21st Jun 08
Location: Lancashire.
User status: Offline
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Surely if you work nights you would have started work at 11pm anyway so it wouldnt be a problem? Its never gonna happen though, what happens if you're driving home from the other end of the country and there is a X amount of miles tailback after an accident, making you late home, does this mean you have to get a hotel?! Bloody silly in my opinion.
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SR91
Member
Registered: 21st Jun 08
Location: Lancashire.
User status: Offline
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My advice is better than the stupid proposals:
DONT DRIVE LIKE A DICK.
Pump that into new drivers!
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SR91
Member
Registered: 21st Jun 08
Location: Lancashire.
User status: Offline
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And back road smasher, you were obviously traveling too fast, you should of slowed down when you clocked a car at the side of a thin road...
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
it was a diesel spill.
Just curious. I do agree, driver training is a big part of any solution.
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Just to disagree complete with the general tone of the thread - points don't mean you're a bad driver - they mean you've been caught driving badly.
I agree - however, the volume of points IMO has a direct correlation with standard of driving. 3points, ok, could be a one off mistake, However getting caught twice, maybe, three or 4 times in a short period of time (say the three years that points stay on your license for), somewhat decreases my acceptance of your point. More points = lower standard of roadcraft/road driving.
Just to point out, I'm not talking abouthow fast someone can get round a track, I'm only referring to roadcraft.
quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
I'm not saying I haven't - but I never had my license revoked.
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Like I say, luck.
I drive more than the average motorist, on average at least 35,000 miles a year for each of the 5 years that I've worked here - Thats 175,000miles+ ignoring the mileage I did in the 5 years previous to that. In that time I've driven up and down the country literally from John O' Groates to Land's End and across France and Spain. I've got zero points and no own fault accidents - You see other motorists pulled at the side of the motorway all the time but in reality, its easy to spot an unmarked Police car from the number of aerials, type of car and no. of people inside - Its all down to paying attention and reading the road ahead, not driving at the end of your bonnet, no speed camera is so invisible that you can't see it with enough time to slow down.
quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
you choose the time and place
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
And if you're lucky, that decision comes off.
You could be done for speeding on an empty road same as you can actually speed past schools and not get caught.
See previous paragraph
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
To say you've not accrued enough points to lose your licence is a very poor way of describing the driving standards.
I've had points for borderline stuff and I've done some very silly things indeed and not got done. I could have had my licence revoked many times over, as I'm sure most people could have. Whether that be letting the car accelerate down a hill and go a few mph over a limit in perfect safety or opening it up on an empty motorway, it's sheer luck.
The correlation you're trying to make just doesn't exist in any reliable form.
see paragraph above re. amount of points
When you did the "very silly things", were you aware of your situation, doing things in a location where you had no chance of being caught? I'm curious as to what these "very silly things" were.
And I don't agree with this borderline phrase, nothing is borderline, its clear cut. If you were over the speed limit, you were over the limit. If you were on your phone, you're on your phone, if you were 1mg over the 35mg alcohol limit, your still over. Doesn't matter what you're over by, you're still acting outside of the law - the degree of punishment is driven by the amount that you're infringing those limits.
[Edited on 27-05-2011 by LiVe LeE]
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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TBH none of you are qualified to comment on this except John and I as we are IAM trained  
The above is a joke by the way.
It's laughable and it'll never happen, and don't worry, I'll be involved with the IAM fighting for younger drivers if anything like this ever gets spoken about.
[Edited on 27-05-2011 by pow]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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By borderline I mean 36 in a 30, I know it's an offense but it's also less hazardous than going slower if the lower speed is inappropriate to the conditions.
The silly things for me are just that, speeding, treating country lanes like race tracks in my younger days, I don't drive within the law every single hour of the day and I think anyone who claims otherwise is lying. That isn't to say I speed everywhere, I would to think I drive safely, but that is a lot more down to watching what is going on than checking my speedo in the blind assumption that under the limit means safe and over means unsafe. It's not that simple.
I am half agreeing with you Rich, I just think it's also easy to be caught when on the most part, the driving standard is no worse than people with clean licences who are lucky.
Of course there are also those people who have points because they are inconsiderate and dangerous. That is fine.
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I would to think I drive safely, but that is a lot more down to watching what is going on than checking my speedo in the blind assumption that under the limit means safe and over means unsafe. It's not that simple.
I agree with this entirely
I'm not arguing whether someone is safe/unsafe or good driver/bad driver - They might be the world's greatest track driver and I'd never compare actual driver ability with physical road craft.
[Edited on 27-05-2011 by LiVe LeE]
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Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by pow
TBH none of you are qualified to comment on this except John and I as we are IAM trained
The above is a joke by the way.
It's laughable and it'll never happen, and don't worry, I'll be involved with the IAM fighting for younger drivers if anything like this ever gets spoken about.
[Edited on 27-05-2011 by pow]
it better be a joke m8 or i'll have your guts for garters.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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In the context of road driving and points I'm also talking about road craft and not outright ability to handle a car.
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DJMartin07
Member
Registered: 1st Feb 07
Location: Bedford/
User status: Offline
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I feel this is a joke. Won't affect me anymore, but my sister it would. The younger lot do there tests so them and there mates have more freedom, and don't have to rely on parents or our very poor imho public transport system. So if you make them have an older person always in the car, then that removes the who'll object of freedom, and they should in lessons give kids everything they need to learn. When I did driving lesson's I started in the summer, and then did winter driving as well as being given the night time driving needed on icey roads in the winter. I was also given Dual carrageway lessons on the A1 and getting off before it became the A1(M), Motorway driving isn't hard to get if you have a go at standard dual carrageway, and not just city/ town driving in day light. This is just my opinion. I just feel if ya give them more training in there lessons, kids would have far more experience for when they get on the roads, and to stop them from racing. Just show them videos of accidents from Street Racing. Those are my opinion.
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taylorboosh
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
User status: Offline
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Some people race regardless of laws/training. Passing this law just means they will race during the day.
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drbeansri
Member
Registered: 10th Dec 06
Location: Hertfordshire / Plymouth
User status: Offline
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working with ambulance crews last year, a large majority or RTCs we attended where involving younger drivers with fast cars..
But we still did get the odd 90year old driving etc 
[Edited on 27-05-2011 by drbeansri]
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taylorboosh
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
User status: Offline
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its because lads are fucking idiots, especially at younger age
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