Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
|
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10830485
Seems a bit pointless seen as though there are a vast range of other phones that have the same capabilities!
|
ste_p23
Member
Registered: 29th Dec 08
Location: Hindley,Wigan
User status: Offline
|
Stupid fucking rag heads
|
oceansoul
Member
Registered: 19th Jun 06
Location: Sunbury, Surrey
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10830485
Seems a bit pointless seen as though there are a vast range of other phones that have the same capabilities!
Is it just the Blackberry PIN Messenger though? I thought it was only blackberrys that can access that?
|
Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
|
Doesn't say, I read it to mean the sending of data?
|
oceansoul
Member
Registered: 19th Jun 06
Location: Sunbury, Surrey
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Saudi Arabia is to prevent the use of the Blackberry to Blackberry instant messaging service.
Both nations are unhappy that they are unable to monitor such communications via the handsets.
This is because the Blackberry handsets automatically send the encrypted data to computer servers outside of the two countries.
I read that as blackberry PIN messenger thingy. But the article also mentions data and email 
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted, but you can access the data either side of this tunnel. Infact Etisalat managed a few months back to install spyware on their customers blackberry's by passing it as an update (reason why blackberry and iphone users should user Lockout app). So i think it's a load of BS believing they are considering banning the blackberry purely on them wanting access to data as you can get access via other means - the phone is far from secure (just like any other phone tbf)
|
ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
Blackberrys haven't been banned. They have just banned the use of BBM and E-Mail. I assume that the term E-Mail probably means the use of Blackberry Mail Server services.
|
ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
Or it's just a load of bollocks.
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted, but you can access the data either side of this tunnel. Infact Etisalat managed a few months back to install spyware on their customers blackberry's by passing it as an update (reason why blackberry and iphone users should user Lockout app). So i think it's a load of BS believing they are considering banning the blackberry purely on them wanting access to data as you can get access via other means - the phone is far from secure (just like any other phone tbf)
"The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted"
This is what they are not hapy about.
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted, but you can access the data either side of this tunnel. Infact Etisalat managed a few months back to install spyware on their customers blackberry's by passing it as an update (reason why blackberry and iphone users should user Lockout app). So i think it's a load of BS believing they are considering banning the blackberry purely on them wanting access to data as you can get access via other means - the phone is far from secure (just like any other phone tbf)
"The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted"
This is what they are not hapy about.
I think this is all a load of bollocks - why would they not be happy about it considering you can intercept the data (the Etisalat spyware had full access to the users emails/msgs/contacts) eitherside of this tunnel? And even then the encryption could be broken.
If they are going to ban it, it's because blackberrys are about as secure as a chocolate piggy bank in the hands of a toddler not because they can't get access to the data because they clearly can
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted, but you can access the data either side of this tunnel. Infact Etisalat managed a few months back to install spyware on their customers blackberry's by passing it as an update (reason why blackberry and iphone users should user Lockout app). So i think it's a load of BS believing they are considering banning the blackberry purely on them wanting access to data as you can get access via other means - the phone is far from secure (just like any other phone tbf)
"The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted"
This is what they are not hapy about.
I think this is all a load of bollocks - why would they not be happy about it considering you can intercept the data (the Etisalat spyware had full access to the users emails/msgs/contacts) eitherside of this tunnel? And even then the encryption could be broken.
If they are going to ban it, it's because blackberrys are about as secure as a chocolate piggy bank in the hands of a toddler not because they can't get access to the data because they clearly can
Dom, if they want to ban it due to its lack of security, why are they banning it for roaming people as well? Fact is, Blackberrys are extremely secure, if they werent they wouldnt be the one method of internal communication within the FBI. im also sure Mr Obama wouldnt have a BB if they werent secure. the GSM algorhythm was recently hacked, so are they now goin ban mobiles worldwide??
And come on, stop spouting Etisalat Spyware!! UAE Government owned mobile company, tryed to cause panic by installing spyware. RIM advised customers not to install it, AND then came up with a way to stop the install. then the UAE Government decide to ban bb services. its a case of sour grapes from the UAE government.
"The UAE contends some BlackBerry features operate outside the country's laws, "causing judicial, social and national security concerns." At the heart of their concerns is the way the BlackBerry handles data, which is encrypted and routed through RIM's servers overseas, where it cannot be monitored for illegal activity"
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
its purely because data, email and bbm, goes through blackberrys servers, which have a higher safety level than pretty much anyone.
and because their government wants 100% access to peoples data, and blackberry wont allow it, they are making it illegal to use the services.
The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted, but you can access the data either side of this tunnel. Infact Etisalat managed a few months back to install spyware on their customers blackberry's by passing it as an update (reason why blackberry and iphone users should user Lockout app). So i think it's a load of BS believing they are considering banning the blackberry purely on them wanting access to data as you can get access via other means - the phone is far from secure (just like any other phone tbf)
"The data stream/tunnel between blackberry phones and blackberry servers is encrypted"
This is what they are not hapy about.
I think this is all a load of bollocks - why would they not be happy about it considering you can intercept the data (the Etisalat spyware had full access to the users emails/msgs/contacts) eitherside of this tunnel? And even then the encryption could be broken.
If they are going to ban it, it's because blackberrys are about as secure as a chocolate piggy bank in the hands of a toddler not because they can't get access to the data because they clearly can
Dom, if they want to ban it due to its lack of security, why are they banning it for roaming people as well? Fact is, Blackberrys are extremely secure, if they werent they wouldnt be the one method of internal communication within the FBI. im also sure Mr Obama wouldnt have a BB if they werent secure. the GSM algorhythm was recently hacked, so are they now goin ban mobiles worldwide??
And come on, stop spouting Etisalat Spyware!! UAE Government owned mobile company, tryed to cause panic by installing spyware. RIM advised customers not to install it, AND then came up with a way to stop the install. then the UAE Government decide to ban bb services. its a case of sour grapes from the UAE government.
"The UAE contends some BlackBerry features operate outside the country's laws, "causing judicial, social and national security concerns." At the heart of their concerns is the way the BlackBerry handles data, which is encrypted and routed through RIM's servers overseas, where it cannot be monitored for illegal activity"
For starters the GSM encyption hasn't just been cracked, the A5/1(/2) cipher was cracked around 10 years (i think it was even longer than that) ago. It's only recently that processing power has become cheap which makes it now within the reach of average joes to crack or intercept GSM (use transparent dummy cells) comms.
Also Blackberry's aren't that secure. No commercial phone is. Which is why Obama isn't allowed to store or communicate sensitive data via his blackberry and it's why the NSA are (mostly likely) going to force the swap to Sectera Edge's phone.
And the reason i'm banging on about the spyware is because it shows you can tap it at the source
fairly easily, so it makes this whole fiasco a load of betty swallocks!
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
he uses bbm though (obama). he has 5 contacts, and he jokes that his contacts darent send him jokes on bbm in case they get fired.
my point being, the UAE government have said that they want to ban them because they cant monitor the activity with the encryption being outside the UAE.
|
Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
|
Steve Jobs has had his cheque book out tbh.
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
Dom please tell me how BlackBerrys are not secure?
If you have cracked them then you could make a lot of money in the forensic/Law enforcement world!
The only reason they are banning those services is because they want RIM to put some servers in UAE so they can read everyone's e-mail easier!
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doug
Dom please tell me how BlackBerrys are not secure?
If you have cracked them then you could make a lot of money in the forensic/Law enforcement world!
The only reason they are banning those services is because they want RIM to put some servers in UAE so they can read everyone's e-mail easier!
i did mention earlier that the uae are unhappy that encryption is outside the uae, but it was ignored. if BB's were that insecure, the FBI wouldnt use them, the NHS wouldnt use them, the CIA wouldnt use them, and cosmo wouldnt use th........... oh
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
Doug/Bubble, why is the blackberry secure then?
[Edited on 03-08-2010 by Dom]
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Doug/Bubble, why is the blackberry secure then?
[Edited on 03-08-2010 by Dom]
as for the technical ins and outs of why blackberrys are secure, i cannot give a geek-worthy explanation.
my point is that you are implying that they are NOT secure.
my point is, that if they were insecure, why do massive authority figures use them?
and why are the indian government and the uae government crying because they cant access user info?
they havent once said "blackberrys are not secure, we want to ban them", they have said they want to ban them because they cant access user info due to encryption, and because RIM wont tell them how to.
this is the argument here.
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Doug/Bubble, why is the blackberry secure then?
[Edited on 03-08-2010 by Dom]
as for the technical ins and outs of why blackberrys are secure, i cannot give a geek-worthy explanation.
my point is that you are implying that they are NOT secure.
my point is, that if they were insecure, why do massive authority figures use them?
and why are the indian government and the uae government crying because they cant access user info?
they havent once said "blackberrys are not secure, we want to ban them", they have said they want to ban them because they cant access user info due to encryption, and because RIM wont tell them how to.
this is the argument here.
Well it sounds that you're basing it all on the fact that RIM use a AES/DES encrypted tunnel between their phones and their servers (can do something similar with an android/iphone/pc), which i agree is secure. What i was getting at was that the Etisalat fiasco clearly demonstrated (fair enough it got spotted fairly quickly, but ploughing through the source-code it looked like a load of monkeys knocked it together, nothing was discreet) that you can gain access to data from the device (source) by pushing an update. What every way you spin it, that isn't secure
But this is like anything, if you can intercept at the source then jobs a gooden'. Eitherway, RIM will be all over this like flys to shit and trying to prevent anything like that happening again.
As for "it must be secure if FBI/NHS/Jack Bauer use them", well clearly the NSA think otherwise hence why they are getting rid of Obama's Blackberry and replacing it with something like the Sectera Edge.
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
I talk about the device being secure on a hardware level.
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
i heard of the edge one, isnt that the "unhackable" windows mobile phone?
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/certifications.jsp
according to those countries and authorities, theyre pretty happy.
im not arguing with you, im just saying that you laugh when we say theyre secure, clearly they must be!
|
Doug
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 03
User status: Offline
|
If Dom can demonstrate how someone can crack a passcode or their encryption then I will admit defeat. Until then I think he fails to understand the full argument
|
bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
quote:
Originally posted by Doug
If Dom can demonstrate how someone can crack a passcode or their encryption then I will admit defeat. Until then I think he fails to understand the full argument
tbh, i see where he is coming from partly.
but my point is, that by saying bb's arent secure is ignorance. i can hack into a samsung phone via bluetooth. cant on a bb. a regular hacker cannot work into bbm messages or emails.
and the original post is the uae are banning them because they themselves cannot hack the encryption, and now india are joining the bandwagon. not banning because they arent safe.
|
Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Doug
If Dom can demonstrate how someone can crack a passcode or their encryption then I will admit defeat. Until then I think he fails to understand the full argument
It's nothing to do with encryption hacking, passcode (not sure what you mean by this) cracking or hardware. What i was getting at with the Etisalat spyware was that someone can push an update to a Blackberry device that then gives someone access to the data.
Another example, you have a secure tunnel to a VPS host from your computer and you pipe your internet data through that tunnel. Now this tunnel is secure, i'm not denying that. But if you have a keylogger installed then it makes it about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
The fact is, you shouldn't be able to push anything as an update to RIM devices. Updates should only be authoritised by RIM and if networks want to push an update out it has to be done through RIM themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by bubble
but my point is, that by saying bb's arent secure is ignorance.
It's ignorant to believe that commericially (ie: nothing military/government based) available mobiles are secure. They're simply not.
|
