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Author Stupid question!
Nick-S
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Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
17th May 04 at 11:44   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Adam
the wastegate opens when you accelerate and will open when you get to a preset amount of boost

when you decelerate then the noise would come from a dumpvale

The wastegate would produce a chattery sound as it would never hit the sides, as soon as it opens the boost drops and it starts to close
dumpvalve the car hasent got 1
Adam
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Registered: 1st May 01
Location: Hurstbourne Tarrant
User status: Offline
17th May 04 at 11:44   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by rich728
cool....next question, could wastegate flutter cause misfires?


The wastgate is supposed to flutter, its how car controls the boost level.


rich728
the best way for me to describe what I'm is like a "chatter" or "clicking" very rapidly...is that flutter?


afpdl
Yes its the waste gate opening and closing rapidly. Metal hitting metal makes the sound.
GIBBS
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Registered: 22nd Feb 01
Location: Kent, Jap Car Importer :)
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17th May 04 at 11:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by GIBBS
quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by Adam
you haven't got a clue

3 things cause chatter

Anti-lag systems
Some types of dump valve
Wastegates
how many road cars do u see runin an anti lag system


probably as many as you see car's making the loud chattering noise from just the air travelling back over the blades
all car's will come with a form of dump valve, even if it's a plastic recirc, but it will stop the air traveling back into the turbo and damaging it.

my mates FRST chatters n he dose not run anti lag. he also has no dump valve. yes chatter may cause damage if u runin very high boost but at standard RS turbo it wont.
it is not the waste gate that causes the noise.


The boost is NOT meant to be going back to the turbo regardless of whatever you say, it's not designed that way, and is certainly not designed to be able to withstand it low boost or high boost. not all turbo's have internal wastegate's so maybe a rst doesn't.

I cannot be bothered to argue with you anymore, you're clearly far too ignorant to realise when you are wrong.

Matt
Adam
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Registered: 1st May 01
Location: Hurstbourne Tarrant
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17th May 04 at 11:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

you know if you swing something through the air really fast you hear a noise, this is what the wastegate is doing and causing the chatter noise
Nick-S
Member

Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
17th May 04 at 11:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

To put it as simply as possible, this phenomenon is caused when the pressure ratio across the compressor side of the turbo becomes large enough to cause a flow reversal aross the compressor wheel. In effect the pressure in the intake manifold downstream of the turbo becomes high enough for air to flow backwards through the turbo for a split second. This has the effect of lowering the pressure in the manifold, and hence causing the flow reversal to stop. Of course as soon as this occurs the pressure downstream of the compressor can recover again and the whole process is repeated. This will happen at a fairly low frequency - say a couple of hertz and the pressure waves present in the inlet tract as a result will be audible.

as sed by a cosworth enginer. this is what causes chatter. not the waste gate
Adam
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Registered: 1st May 01
Location: Hurstbourne Tarrant
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17th May 04 at 11:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

even when you slow down the turbo wiull still be spinning, it is about 18k rpm at full speed and takes a wwhile to slow down as there is still exhaust gas turning it
Nick-S
Member

Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
17th May 04 at 11:49   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by GIBBS
quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by GIBBS
quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by Adam
you haven't got a clue

3 things cause chatter

Anti-lag systems
Some types of dump valve
Wastegates
how many road cars do u see runin an anti lag system


probably as many as you see car's making the loud chattering noise from just the air travelling back over the blades
all car's will come with a form of dump valve, even if it's a plastic recirc, but it will stop the air traveling back into the turbo and damaging it.

my mates FRST chatters n he dose not run anti lag. he also has no dump valve. yes chatter may cause damage if u runin very high boost but at standard RS turbo it wont.
it is not the waste gate that causes the noise.


The boost is NOT meant to be going back to the turbo regardless of whatever you say, it's not designed that way, and is certainly not designed to be able to withstand it low boost or high boost. not all turbo's have internal wastegate's so maybe a rst doesn't.

I cannot be bothered to argue with you anymore, you're clearly far too ignorant to realise when you are wrong.

Matt
but mate it dose have a wastegate as it has a actuator and that wot controles it. the nosie (chatter) is the sound of air reverbarating of the turbo blades as the throtel is closed. when the hell did i say it was desinged to do this?
Adam
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Registered: 1st May 01
Location: Hurstbourne Tarrant
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17th May 04 at 11:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

if air is going back through the turbo your mates car is proper fucked
Nick-S
Member

Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
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17th May 04 at 11:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Adam
even when you slow down the turbo wiull still be spinning, it is about 18k rpm at full speed and takes a wwhile to slow down as there is still exhaust gas turning it
i dint say that the turbo impeller gos bakwards its the air not the impeller

flow reversal across the compressor wheel. not the wheel itself

[Edited on 17-05-2004 by GSi_16v]
Adam
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Registered: 1st May 01
Location: Hurstbourne Tarrant
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17th May 04 at 11:52   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

have you ever looked in a turbo? they are made so that air can't go backwards, if it could then it would not force air forwards either
Nick-S
Member

Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
17th May 04 at 11:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ok ok i av had enough of this argueing. that wasent my point in the first place. i acsept that i am completly wrong.

no hard fellings mate
Chris Bingham
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: In Scotland
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17th May 04 at 11:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Good....cause you were talking horseshit.

[Edited on 17-05-2004 by Chris Bingham]
Nick-S
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Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
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17th May 04 at 11:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bingham
Good....cause you were talking horeshit.

ok ok i told i am wrong sory
Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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17th May 04 at 12:02   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bingham
Good....cause you were talking horeshit.

ok ok i told i am wrong sory


I still get the feeling GSi_16v thinks he's right
Nick-S
Member

Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
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17th May 04 at 12:05   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

nah mate i dont. i avent got a clue my self, it was wot my mate as bin tellin me. he sed go on 2 fiestaturbo.com n i was lookin on there

but oviasly i was wrong just as i thought i sounded like i new somethin oh well
GIBBS
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Registered: 22nd Feb 01
Location: Kent, Jap Car Importer :)
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17th May 04 at 12:08   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Ditch
Member

Registered: 29th Nov 02
Location: St Albans Drives: JDM Celica GT4 WRC
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17th May 04 at 14:11   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
nah mate i dont. i avent got a clue my self, it was wot my mate as bin tellin me. he sed go on 2 fiestaturbo.com n i was lookin on there

but oviasly i was wrong just as i thought i sounded like i new somethin oh well



you were insistent that I was wrong at the begining of this post,
yet now you dont think you have a clue?

personally I wouldnt be so sure of something I dont understand!

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