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Author F1 Computer simulation...
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 20:36   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If their was a very accurate F1 simulation game - so much so that F1 teams would use it connected to a proper F1 car to practice different scenarios - would their be much of a market for it outside of the F1 world?

Their are some obvious ones such as developing it further for other motorsports, but what about a more mass market appeal. Would the likes of the gaming market be interested in a more 'lifelike' piece of software?
Marc
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29th Nov 07 at 20:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

In short, yes.
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 20:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

in short is no good, you'll be sorry to hear!
Marc
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29th Nov 07 at 20:41   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Well, think back. Microphose Formula 1 at the time was the nearest thing on the Amiga and PC. Then look at the Playstation version years later where you could race a full season over accurate tracks.

Providing the game/simulator you're referring to is enjoyable to play as well as being realistic it would be a success.

It all depends on the longivity of the game as lapping 70 times can get boring.
Robin
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29th Nov 07 at 20:43   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I think the cost of creating an interface which was realistic enough, inlcuding a vehicle to sit in, steering wheel with decent feedback, pedals with decent feel, wraparound screens etc, would be quite high, so the market would be limited to amusement arcades.

Then you've got the problem that it'd get trashed if it was in an arcade, so people probably wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on it.

But yeah, there would be a market, it might not be very strong, but there'd be one.

You could expand on the idea though, and have a decent flight sim, using a cockpit and wraparound screens, all different types of motorsport would work too, you could even teach people to drive on it, if it was good enough.
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 20:45   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The accuracy would more come from the controls to what happens in the actual game play - as is being created by an F1 team mainly for the reason of training drivers in scenarios they cant always do in real life and to aid them in learning courses.

Would it really be any different to games that are out there already inregards to the controls?!
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 20:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Robin
I think the cost of creating an interface which was realistic enough, inlcuding a vehicle to sit in, steering wheel with decent feedback, pedals with decent feel, wraparound screens etc, would be quite high, so the market would be limited to amusement arcades.



Yeah, the actual concept of a full on car/screens/controls type thing for the mass market is out of the question. Its more if the software that was created to be linked to the car initially, so therefore extremely likelike, could be adapted to be used in current games and make them better?
Marc
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29th Nov 07 at 20:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The controls might be more sensitive to what you'd get with games like GT/Forza.

As Robin says if it was that type of simulator it would be restricted to events or large amusement arcades.
Hammer
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29th Nov 07 at 21:14   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If it was realistic to the point of driving round a track in the perfect line for 70+ laps, with engine, gearbox, and other failures in the middle, i'd say the market would be so limited as to only appeal to 1 person, Steve (the boring cunt).
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 21:17   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

andy1868
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29th Nov 07 at 21:19   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

just think about flight simulators. you can buy whole cockpits for it and people fly in straight lines for hours and hours over simulated water. if you can appeal to the same market i don't see why not
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 21:52   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

BMW paid Liveforspeed and Rfactor produce a Life like simulation of a F1 car for their sims

Live For Speed and Rfactor are the most realistic sims you can get for public use.
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 21:53   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Paul, you got any links to stuff about this?
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 21:57   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SMc0ZhZc6o
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 22:01   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

but most teams already have their own simulators anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOkt-zTQqE&feature=related

I know Honda have one similar and mclaren.

I think they only really use them to 'learn the track' ... as it's not really relevant to how their cars will be set up or perform in the real world.

But as far as 'people wanting to play' - in those 'realistic' sims on the PC, the F1 cars are the boringest to drive...
Tommy L
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29th Nov 07 at 22:01   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

geek day
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 22:03   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I know Honda have one similar


I know for a fact they are wanting something better
Nath
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29th Nov 07 at 22:04   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by corsa_tomtom
Trash Can


Fair one.
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 22:12   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I know Honda have one similar


I know for a fact they are wanting something better


No surprise after their shit season last year

To be honest... I'm a fan of realism, the more realistic the better... though that puts limitations on having a controlling device sufficent enough to handle it... Then also with realism there's things such as feedback events on the actual cockpit ... bumps, tilting to simulate g force etc..

To develop it for a F1 team to use, it would have to simulate the real world COMPLETELY... everything the suspension, tyres, etc would do, 100% precise... otherwise it is useless for 'testing' on, as a setup that works in the sim, may turn out to be useless in real life... It would also be useless to practice on, as a corner in the sim they can go through flat out, may not be possible in real life etc. How would you model their EXACT downforce? if they put a new slight flap, or bit of body work on, is your sim going to re calculate that? no? well how's it going to help the team... As the simulation will not be a true representation of the real car.

last year honda were shit, because someone didn't quite calibrate their new wind tunnel properly

You imagine tuning your car / testing setups for track on a simulator that's not quite real...


Ok... so say you've made a 100% Realistic sim, that exact models tyre deformations, exact area dynamics (better than a wind tunnel or fluid dynamics), every possibilty in new engine mapping etc etc... (everything a team who want to test new idea's on) ...

... then basically it'd be pointless for the use outside of the F1 world. Yes it'd be cool to drive it for a laugh, but since you wouldn't be used to the cars / tracks, it would take a while to learn / get used to it, before you could do a quick time... I don't really see someone lending you the simulator for the day.

Honda for example, used to take their simulator sometimes to Corporate events to let people have a quick blast / watch jenson have a blast, while people watched.

but really what your suggesting is pointless and has no market outside, despite what people say.
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 22:20   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

tbh like Ive said above, its not really the whole concept I could see being viable for use outside of F1, for exactly the reasons already stated. Its more the actual software that I was wondering if it would have a use, maybe being used by a current developer in their games to produce a more realistic reaction in certain situations.

BTW- the reason why Im asking is because an F1 team is looking for investors for such a product, and one thing it mentions is further use in other markets including gaming. My Dad was sent the investor pack to see if he is interested, and sent it onto me as he isnt into F1 so I could give my opinion!
Robin
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29th Nov 07 at 22:23   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I don't see why there's not a market for the software Paul, maybe not the amazing moving simulator, but I'm sure if Forza 3 was developed using technology used by Formula 1 teams, it'd be outstanding, and there's definitely a market for that.
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 22:26   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

thats more my opinion Robin, but saying that I have no idea how close a game such as Forza really is, or how much better it could be made using this new F1 software.
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 22:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
tbh like Ive said above, its not really the whole concept I could see being viable for use outside of F1, for exactly the reasons already stated. Its more the actual software that I was wondering if it would have a use, maybe being used by a current developer in their games to produce a more realistic reaction in certain situations.



The Software is designed to be ultra realistic... The F1 team use it with all the gear, FF wheel and everything... ok...

... Then you take this software and sell it on to consumers...

It's either still ultra realistic ... in which case needs a control device that can allow sufficent control. At least a Force Feedback wheel and pedals. This instantly reduces the amount of people the game would appeal to... and alienates anyone who doesn't have a wheel...

So the developer would have to either 'dumb' down the game, and make it accessible for other controlling devices to reach a mass market... thus either someone with a keyboard or game pad finds it impossible to control... Or... The game is made easy (with loads of auto aids to stop the car from spinning out etc) which defeats the whole point of making an ultra realistic game.


No way in hell I'd want to invest in what you've just explained. I'd be paying for F1 technology (costing millions) ... So that I may make some money back, when the product gets completely dumbed downed and released in a state that could of been made for FAR FAR less?
Cosmo
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29th Nov 07 at 22:31   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Yeah, I see what you mean Paul, and thats certainly one part of it. But I think what I, and Robin (?) is getting at is more the reactions in the actual game play being more realistic depending on what the player does - irregardless of what their input device is. So if that be when the car spins out, what the braking would do in a certain area, what would happen after so many laps to the tyres, etc. etc.
Paul_J
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29th Nov 07 at 22:34   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Robin
I don't see why there's not a market for the software Paul, maybe not the amazing moving simulator, but I'm sure if Forza 3 was developed using technology used by Formula 1 teams, it'd be outstanding, and there's definitely a market for that.


Yeh but your missing the point that the Forza team would be developing a game engine to meet the needs of their project...


Basically what I'm saying is, for F1 use the simulation would have to be 100% Realistic - Costing a LOT!


A 'game' engine would A ) be developed for where it is required and B ) developed for less than the F1 'sim' due to it not needing to be 100% precise and model everything exact.


I can't see any developer paying the asking price for F1 technology, so that they can then completely rip out all the stuff that cost a lot to develop, dumb it down completely so it can be used by all and then made to run on a set of requirements far less than what the F1 team's rig would be, just so they can make the next 'arcadey' game like Forza.


Let me put this example... If for instance Renault started selling their race engine's from their F1 cars, to a production car manufacturer, who would have to take the F1 engine, completely de tune it to make it reliable day to day, and de tune it to produce better fuel economy... etc. Pointless, expensive waste of money.

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