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Author Ooopsie...
ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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14th Nov 06 at 11:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Sony PS3 isn't back compatible with around 200 PS2 games like advertised. Sony 'knew about the problem' but 'couldn't do anything about it'. Bummer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6146328.stm

[Edited on 14-11-2006 by ed]
John
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14th Nov 06 at 11:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

They are fixing it though.

And its still better than what xbox360 has.
ed
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14th Nov 06 at 11:56   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Am I right in thinking the 360 is not back compatible at all?
John
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14th Nov 06 at 11:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

360 is back compatible, but only certain games and its basically emulation.

It needs software for each game though that either comes with the console or has to be downloaded afaik.

The ps3 has a whole ps2 in it, it just has teething problems.
ed
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14th Nov 06 at 11:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

PS3 is pretty
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:07   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

john - the ps3 will still need some sort of emulation for the games to run properly, if it did have an 'entire' ps2 then it should work out of the box...

ok so it wont need to emulate to the extent of the 360, but still...
Steve
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14th Nov 06 at 12:09   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

still no more powerful than the 360
Cybermonkey
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14th Nov 06 at 12:13   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
still no more powerful than the 360


NER NER NER MY XBOX IS BETTER THAN YOUR PS3 NER NER NER

Xbox360 = 1TFLOP
PS3 = 2.3TFLOPS

more than twice the power sunshine xxx you're a lovely lad though
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:14   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
still no more powerful than the 360


NER NER NER MY XBOX IS BETTER THAN YOUR PS3 NER NER NER

Xbox360 = 1TFLOP
PS3 = 2.3TFLOPS

more than twice the power sunshine xxx you're a lovely lad though


means nothing when coupled with a crippled memory bus
John
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14th Nov 06 at 12:14   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
john - the ps3 will still need some sort of emulation for the games to run properly, if it did have an 'entire' ps2 then it should work out of the box...

ok so it wont need to emulate to the extent of the 360, but still...


It has a ps2 in it.

It will eventually be emulated and the ps2 chips taken out but for the moment it has a ps2.
John
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14th Nov 06 at 12:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

360 and ps3 are pretty equal in terms of overall power but they are each better in certain aspects than the other.

From what I read when people were moaning about the way the ps3 memory is accessed it's not that big a problem, just has to be attacked from a different angle.
Cybermonkey
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14th Nov 06 at 12:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
still no more powerful than the 360


NER NER NER MY XBOX IS BETTER THAN YOUR PS3 NER NER NER

Xbox360 = 1TFLOP
PS3 = 2.3TFLOPS

more than twice the power sunshine xxx you're a lovely lad though


means nothing when coupled with a crippled memory bus


Crippled

Memory
XBox 360
512 MB GDDR3 RAM
PS3
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

Memory Bandwidth
XBox 360
22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
21.6 GB/s front-side bus

PS3
Main RAM: 25.6GB/s
VRAM: 22.4GB/s
RSX: 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB: 2.5GB/s
John
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14th Nov 06 at 12:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

A lot of moving about has to be done with data in memory in the ps3, everything can access the one set of memory in the xbox, i'm sure that's what paul is talking about.
Steve
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14th Nov 06 at 12:18   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

cybermonkkey your talking crap

sorry look at all benchmarks you will see the ps3 and xbox are almost identical with the xbox 360 sometimes being a touch faster
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:35   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

yes, all well and good in print, but in practical sense the Cell is not a performance driven processor, its more of a number crunching workhorse... and in most cases, yes for games you need an ability to computate alot of equations and so forth, but not always...

Cell has 1 PPE and 7 SPE's (Primary Processing Engine, Synergistic Processing Engine), where-as the 360 has like 3 dual-core PPE's. Yes, this does mean the PS3 can handle more workload with its 1 single PPE and 7 SPE's, BUT as far as how PPE/SPE systems work together, the 360 will still have the edge with 3 PPE engines running on dual-core chips...

Also the Cell is not a true 128-bit CPU, but infact a 64bit PPC core cpu with a 128bit entry register due to the SPE architecture...

meh its all gravy

[Edited on 14-11-2006 by PaulW]
Steve
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14th Nov 06 at 12:38   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i swore the xbox cpu had 4 cores.

maybe not

games engineers havent even started using all 3 cores of the xbox processor yet.

I believe they have only used up to one cores processing power
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

steve - 3 processing cores...

also, afaik no game currently uses more than 1 of the 3 processors, including gears of war...
Steve
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14th Nov 06 at 12:40   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

uh huh
John
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14th Nov 06 at 12:42   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If the 360 is so much easier to program for why are they still not using all 3 cores?

Even at the most basic it must be easy to send off some concurrent but not mutually dependant processes off to another core without much optimisation?

Or what was suggested and do on the fly decompressing of textures on a core etc
Cybermonkey
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14th Nov 06 at 12:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
cybermonkkey your talking crap

sorry look at all benchmarks you will see the ps3 and xbox are almost identical with the xbox 360 sometimes being a touch faster


how can there be benchmarks steve, the PS3 was only released in Japan a few days ago...

paul, the idea behind the cell is to handle high-end AI and physics, something that it excels at. in fact, its one-of-a-kind. the Nvidia chip is where the visual beauty is coming from, and it is still more powerful than the new Nvidia G80 chips which are about to be released.
I expect Sony to win again on all fronts, like they have done with the last 2 consoles. i know what i will be getting. just for GTHD in fact
Steve
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14th Nov 06 at 12:44   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Gran Turismo would be the only reason i would want a ps3.

the xbox has twice the graphical processing memory also.

wehter sony has better games is fully up for debate, but on out and out performance there is nothing between them

[Edited on 14-11-2006 by Steve]
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
how can there be benchmarks steve, the PS3 was only released in Japan a few days ago...

paul, the idea behind the cell is to handle high-end AI and physics, something that it excels at. in fact, its one-of-a-kind. the Nvidia chip is where the visual beauty is coming from, and it is still more powerful than the new Nvidia G80 chips which are about to be released.
I expect Sony to win again on all fronts, like they have done with the last 2 consoles. i know what i will be getting. just for GTHD in fact


i dont think sony will win on all fronts at all, they have bitten off far too much than what they can chew...

the concept behind the cell was not purely for games, but for computation, simple. yes it excells with physics and ai, all which need mass amounts of number crunching abilities, but as far as generic processing power is concerned, it is still an average state processor.

if you actually take time to read through the official documentation in regards to the cell cpu, architecure, logic processing, etc, then you will see where im coming from. it is an impressive bit of silicon, but its just not ideal i feel for the way the ps3 is marketed.

http://cell.scei.co.jp/e_download.html
Cybermonkey
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14th Nov 06 at 12:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
how can there be benchmarks steve, the PS3 was only released in Japan a few days ago...

paul, the idea behind the cell is to handle high-end AI and physics, something that it excels at. in fact, its one-of-a-kind. the Nvidia chip is where the visual beauty is coming from, and it is still more powerful than the new Nvidia G80 chips which are about to be released.
I expect Sony to win again on all fronts, like they have done with the last 2 consoles. i know what i will be getting. just for GTHD in fact


i dont think sony will win on all fronts at all, they have bitten off far too much than what they can chew...

the concept behind the cell was not purely for games, but for computation, simple. yes it excells with physics and ai, all which need mass amounts of number crunching abilities, but as far as generic processing power is concerned, it is still an average state processor.

if you actually take time to read through the official documentation in regards to the cell cpu, architecure, logic processing, etc, then you will see where im coming from. it is an impressive bit of silicon, but its just not ideal i feel for the way the ps3 is marketed.

http://cell.scei.co.jp/e_download.html


Yes, Sony have spent hundreds of millions on this, it will surely fail because PaulW has a bigger e-Penis
PaulW
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14th Nov 06 at 12:56   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

also the cell was designed to perform better in multi-cpu scenerios such as those in supercomputers, etc, where number crunching is the main requirement (weather simulation, genome studies, etc)
Cybermonkey
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14th Nov 06 at 12:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Gran Turismo would be the only reason i would want a ps3.

the xbox has twice the graphical processing memory also.

wehter sony has better games is fully up for debate, but on out and out performance there is nothing between them

[Edited on 14-11-2006 by Steve]


no it does not, the G70 chip has access to the XDR memory as it pleases...

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