RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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I've just assumed 500 tonnes for calculation - but need to double check!
68 tonnes doesnt seem enough
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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this is acutally painful, we have provided examples about why it would take off, noone has provided an example as to why it wont take off
this agument about the force of the conevyor belt going inthe opposite direction cancelling out the force of the jet engines simply does stand AS THE FCUKING FORCE OF THE CONVEYOR BELT HAS NO BEARING, ITS JUST SLIPPING UNDER THE WHEELS
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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but the wheels arent freewheeling - theyre in contact with the ground
you are drawing the conclusion that the plane operates in the same way when it is on the ground as it does in the air
its completely different
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Jules S
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Registered: 24th Dec 03
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Unbeliveable.
But ive seen it on every thread.
its so painfully simple.
The plane uses jet engines to propel itself forward.
In what way whatsoever does the conveyor belt have an effect on the planes means on propulsion?
Absolutely fcuking none.
The plane moves forward, It takes off.
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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It will not take off into the air, final statement.
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Jizinho Silva 10]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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they are freewheeling liek a rollerskate is freewheeling. If you stood ion a treadmill wearing rollerskates, you would have to hardly apply any force to hold yourself in a stationary position say holding onto a bar, and if you wanted to move forward you would have to hardly use any force to go forwards
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Steve]
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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which way is the conveyor belt moving?
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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doesnt make any difference
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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its painful that your "examples" are so damn flawed! infact they have little or no relevance
in your example the treadmill is at a constant speed - in this the conveyor speed increases with the speed of advance - leading to no forward motion as the ground plane is driven by the wheels which in turn are transmitting the motion thrust of the engine
your example has no relevance to the point - the two arent operating in the same conditions!
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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the conveyor belt could be moving at a million miles per hour if the wheels could handle it it would make no difference
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SVM 286
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
Location: pain
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Don't get upset Steve.
I am as convinced as you mate, only on the opposite side of the argument.
I'm almost certain that this principle was tested on television years ago, using a model craft and a treadmill. I believe it was on 'The Great Egg Race' or something similar.
I'm sure the result was that the craft remained static or fell off of the back of the belt dependant on engine speed.
The principle at work here is that the craft is unable to overcome the pull of the belt as it matches the crafts forward momentum perfectly. 
Maybe we could all e-mail John Travolta and ask him if he's got a friend with a giant portable conveyor belt, as we have an experiment we'd like him to perform.
Oh, and incidentally, Brad, you total bastard  You've started a war. 
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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yes but you need to think about it differently then i guarantee you would agree that our side is the correct argument
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they are freewheeling liek a rollerskate is freewheeling. If you stood ion a treadmill wearing rollerskates, you would have to hardly apply any force to hold yourself in a stationary position say holding onto a bar, and if you wanted to move forward you would have to hardly use any force to go forwards
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Steve]
in this case as you go increase acceleration and momentum; the conveyor increases in speed at the same rate - you would never exceed the speed of the conveyor - it is driven by the wheels of the plane which in turn are transmitting the propulsion of the jets - U WOULD NEVER GET FORWARD MOMENTUM
*when the plane is on the ground
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by LiVe LeE]
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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if the wheels are freewheeling, ie not locked, the jets and the wheels have no effect force wise on each other
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they are freewheeling liek a rollerskate is freewheeling. If you stood in a treadmill wearing rollerskates, you would have to hardly apply any force to hold yourself in a stationary position say holding onto a bar
your rollerskate example is bollocks though, as its based on the fact that the conveyor belt wont speed up.
Yes you can pull yourself forward, but what would happen to the wheels...they would rotate faster, causing the conveyor belt to go faster. You can pull harder, wheels spin faster, so conveyor belt goes faster...etc...etc.
How you can say the conveyor belt and wheels make no difference when the wheels are directly connected to the plane which is on the ground (conveyor belt). Your theory works in the air, not on the ground.
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they are freewheeling liek a rollerskate is freewheeling. If you stood ion a treadmill wearing rollerskates, you would have to hardly apply any force to hold yourself in a stationary position say holding onto a bar, and if you wanted to move forward you would have to hardly use any force to go forwards
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Steve]
in this case as you go forward (or increase acceleration and momentum) the conveyor increases in speed at the same rate - you would never exceed the speed of the conveyor - it is driven by the wheels of the plane which in turn are transmitting the propulsion of the jets -
*when the plane is on the ground
I thought plane wheels were not driven?
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04
which way is the conveyor belt moving?
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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yes the wheels would spin faster, think about it, so what if they do move faster!! it you would still stay on the spot
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Jizinho Silva 10
quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they are freewheeling liek a rollerskate is freewheeling. If you stood ion a treadmill wearing rollerskates, you would have to hardly apply any force to hold yourself in a stationary position say holding onto a bar, and if you wanted to move forward you would have to hardly use any force to go forwards
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Steve]
in this case as you go forward (or increase acceleration and momentum) the conveyor increases in speed at the same rate - you would never exceed the speed of the conveyor - it is driven by the wheels of the plane which in turn are transmitting the propulsion of the jets -
*when the plane is on the ground
I thought plane wheels were not driven?
they are not, that is why the plane will take off, this is what these people need to understand
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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of course the wheels are propelled by the engines
as the engines suck in and blow air out of the back, the plane body is pushed forwards - this is translated through the wheels onto the groundplane
as the groundplane is moving in a directly proportional rate to the aircraft - the plane will never exceed the ground rate (assuming no external forces, like limiting bearings etc)
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
if the wheels are freewheeling, ie not locked, the jets and the wheels have no effect force wise on each other
whilst the plane is on the ground they do. As to move forward the wheels would HAVE to rotate (due to weight of the plane and gravity causing friction on the ground (conveyor belt). If the wheels rotate so does the conveyor belt and the plane wont more forward.
Your still thinking it as if the plane is in the air not on the ground.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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FFS read 3cm other thread in here about the rolling road
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
of course the wheels are propelled by the engines
as the engines suck in and blow air out of the back, the plane body is pushed forwards - this is translated through the wheels onto the groundplane
as the groundplane is moving in a directly proportional rate to the aircraft - the plane will never exceed the ground rate (assuming no external forces, like limiting bearings etc)
No the wheels are NOT mechanically driven, you are wrong on this. The Propulsion of the jet engines propel the plane, the wheels just roll with the plane.
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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I thought plane wheels were not driven?
never said they were - i said that the forward momentum and thrust is transmitted through the wheels when the plane si on the ground
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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shut the fuck up - I'm not saying the wheels are driven - I'm saying that the forces of propulsion are transmitted through the wheels to the groundplane!
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