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Author Question for everybody
SVM 286
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Registered: 13th Feb 05
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24th May 06 at 22:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I think its only because people are frustrated at how difficult it is to debate such a technical point. I myself have shouted at my computer a number of times tonight.

For me, thrust and drag are a large part of the scenario as these are the two factors which would affect plane speed and thus the planes ability to take off.

The belt matches the plane, but we must still consider the forces acting upon it.


If third party forces that weren't originally mentioned are going to be entered into the equation then this truely is hopeless Ian.
Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
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24th May 06 at 22:49   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

How else would we derive the speed of the plane?

Its a result of the forces acting upon it?
GT4Brody
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24th May 06 at 22:49   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Cant be arsed to read whole thread but, if it acheived enough speed then yes it would take off as it is the air passing over the aerofoil that gives it the lift....
Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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24th May 06 at 22:50   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

the question was can the plane take off, its obvious a normal plane uses thrust to do this, drag is just used to explain why
Hammer
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24th May 06 at 22:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by SVM 286
quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04
quote:
Originally posted by SVM 286
quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04


If you are saying it stays stationary while the conveyor moves then the plane isnt moving at the same speed as the conveyor is.




No Mr 04, geographically stationary, i.e. stationary in realtion to it's surroundings, due to the belt counteracting it's progress.


it is physically impossible for the plane to travel at speed and stay in the same place?


No it isn't.

The plane would be moving on the belt wouldn't it, but it would be at a geo stationary position, much in the same way as a jogger on a tread mill would be.


your confusing the planes wheels with the plane itself, which would have a terminal speed of zero. It is impossible for the plane to have speed yet stay still, even in relation to its surroundings.

a jogger, with his wee legs scurrying underneath him at ten a penny on a tread mill at a geo stationary position has a terminal speed of zero, he is travelling no distance at all over a set period of time.

speed=distance travelled/time elapsed

in this case there is no distance therefore nothing to divide

are you starting to come round to the other way of thinking now? i can see your frustration which isnt being helped by 6 people telling you the one thing
Paul_J
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24th May 06 at 22:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If there's no Thrust

then the plane would sit there like a soggy lemon SVN, and the conveyor belt would sit there at 0 mph too

you'd be able to hear the wind blow past and straw bales roll on by.

How is your plane powered if its not by thrust?
Ste
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24th May 06 at 22:53   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

the third party forces didnt need to be metioned. he didnt metion gravity but no-one expected the plane to just float away. these are forces all around us and as such needn't be metioned specifically. if for example wind was taken into the equation, the wind blowing from the rear of the plane would help push it forwards but would also inhibit the planes ability to take off as there would be less air traveling over the wings. but air from the front would slow the plane down yet increase the wings lift at lower ground speeds



I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
Ste
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24th May 06 at 22:58   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote




trash it


I would rather lose by a mile because i built my own car, than win by an inch because someone else built it for me.
Paul_J
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24th May 06 at 22:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

jesus 807 replies

who would of thought this post would of turned into this in a day
Hammer
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24th May 06 at 23:06   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

how many people are going to bed tonight with planes taking off from conveyor belts running through their heads.

i have a feeling some will be making love to the missus and shouting 'it will take off honest'
Paul_J
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24th May 06 at 23:08   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I have a feeling I'm gonna fail my exam tomorrow based on the fact I've spent half my day on here arguing a pointless point
Hammer
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24th May 06 at 23:14   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

you can fill in one of those forms stating you were on a car forum arguing about planes, it sounds about as convincing as 'the dog ate my lecture notes' however
50Calibre
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24th May 06 at 23:24   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ive been thinkin bout how to explain this for a while so here goes...

if the plane is on the tread mill accelerating forward the plane will require a certain amount of force to keep it moving forward (would be slightly higher than from a stationary runway due to friction in wheels etc) once this initial friction has been over come and the wheels are essentially free wheeling aslong as the total force the planes engines can produce is greater than the force required to overcome the friction from the wheels (which is will be by a lot) then then plane will continue to accelerate despite the treadmill and then produce enough lift to take off.

during this the wheels would of course spin faster than they would be required to during a runway take off.
bradfincham
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24th May 06 at 23:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

So whats the conclusion then?

Will it take off or not??



Ian
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24th May 06 at 23:55   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Yes!
Ian
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13th Mar 20 at 03:23   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by DarrenGSi
if the planes wheels were powering the plane, you would be correct svm


Not sure if this got enough recognition last time, can we take a minute to ask what happens to a plane powered by the wheels when it leaves the ground
Neo
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13th Mar 20 at 21:00   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I'm picturing a plane bouncing along along an endless fast and furious 6 esque runway

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