Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by djgritt
I wonder if this is more Scotland's way of sticking 2-Fingers to the Conservative/Coalition Government rather than exclusively being about Independence.
Would the same feelings have been present if Labour were elected for the UK Government (as they seemed to have a stronger voting backing in Scotland anyway)?
I think the thing that proves that to be false is the more Labour ministers are thrown in our face the further the momentum for the Yes campaign grows.
Again this isn't about 1 Party or 1 Government, it's the opportunity of a lifetime to govern our own affairs.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by djgritt
I wonder if this is more Scotland's way of sticking 2-Fingers to the Conservative/Coalition Government rather than exclusively being about Independence.
Would the same feelings have been present if Labour were elected for the UK Government (as they seemed to have a stronger voting backing in Scotland anyway)?
If Labour were in now I could see it going very different. The fact the tories are in has played tight into Salmonds hands. They're fucking hated up here, they have good taste. It's mainly about having a choice, at the moment they basically get the government the rest of the UK chooses, their entire country could vote labour and they could still end up under Tory rule, doesn't sound much like democracy to me. Is it worth the risk? Dunno, there's not enough facts about, it's all ifs and maybes, if you claim to know exactly how it will pan out then I'm afraid you've been sucked in by one sides or the others propaganda. An informed choice is almost impossible, it's really about who you trust more
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Ellis
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Registered: 11th Sep 07
Location: Aberdeenshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Pop
But are you changing things for the right reasons?
We know the UK will be worse off without Scotland, if for nothing else the upheaval of it all is going to cost both sides a lot of money.
There's is still very little tangible evidence from the Yes side to back anything up. There's a lot of if, bits and maybes. If the Yes vote wins it could be the best decision ever for Scotland, I just think that using a pound you have no control over and other issues like joining the EU could have a much larger effect than predicted.
My reason is I want decisions about my country to be made in my country, if those aren't a legitimate set of reasons then what are?
So you're prepared to take a huge gamble just so arseholes making decisions will be arseholes making decisions but 400 miles closer?
Of course we are, however I feel huge gamble is incorrect terminology, more of a calculated risk. Decisions such as where our tax payers money is spent are made where the funds directly effect the people. We are disproportionately represented in the UK which ended us with that beast Margaret Thatcher in recent history.
I can't understand anyone North of the border that would be interested in, for example, contributing in tax to a ~£40bn 'high-speed' rail network that doesn't appear to extend North of Leeds. We also have to contend with imbeciles such as Boris Johnson who proposes ridiculous ~£90bn island airports.
Yes there people who will vote based on Braveheart and Flower of Scotland however, the overwhelming majority are not voting with patriotism in mind at all; they are voting Yes to improve the future for them and their children in Scotland.
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Pop
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Registered: 8th May 03
Location: Reading
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quote:
Originally posted by HammerStaying is a bigger gamble, we can't keep getting a Government we didn't vote for then expect them to have our interests at heart - they don't.
Whichever way anyone decides to vote leaving is the bigger gamble as Salmond can guarantee nothing. He has chosen to ignore warnings from EU about membership.
However, it is a gamble that is your choice and the result could be great for Scotland. Personally I think you would be better of voting no and taking more power that is offered.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I'm happy for you I can call myself English.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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John and hammer both have different views, can we see you two have a discussion on here?
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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Why do you think there's an offer of new powers on the table a week before the vote and AFTER 200,000 people have already voted? They refused a Devo Max option on the ballot paper until it became apparent the vote is on a knife edge.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I'd round up all Scottish people in England and put them in concentration camps, remove all Scottish people's British passports and make any scots working in England apply for work permits.
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Pop
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Registered: 8th May 03
Location: Reading
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
Why do you think there's an offer of new powers on the table a week before the vote and AFTER 200,000 people have already voted? They refused a Devo Max option on the ballot paper until it became apparent the vote is on a knife edge.
As I've said before, we will be worse off, at least in the short term, without Scotland. If we weren't going to be there wouldn't have been a No campaign!
If we split there is a good chance we will all be worse off.
[Edited on 10-09-2014 by Pop]
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
John and hammer both have different views, can we see you two have a discussion on here?
Your problem is the loss of prestige of the British Empire, the reality of which is it became an insignificant backwater years ago.
The Pound can't stand up against the Dollar, Euro or even Yen internationally and when we enter wars now it's at the say so of the Americans. 
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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I don't mind if they leave or if they stay. But if they do leave then they can't keep the currency and we get to rebuild Hadrians wall as well. And can't vote to join us again when it all goes tits up.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
I don't mind if they leave or if they stay. But if they do leave then they can't keep the currency and we get to rebuild Hadrians wall as well. And can't vote to join us again when it all goes tits up.
Scotland isnt the enemy, the south is. Once Scotland goes, we (northerners) need to join them and start the northern revolution.
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
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We just don't want to be run by a load of private school, paedophile, faggots.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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You think Scottish politicians are any different?
You are delusional.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
John and hammer both have different views, can we see you two have a discussion on here?
Your problem is the loss of prestige of the British Empire, the reality of which is it became an insignificant backwater years ago.
The Pound can't stand up against the Dollar, Euro or even Yen internationally and when we enter wars now it's at the say so of the Americans.
Maybe so, but there are a lot of scots that don't agree with you. Even your closest friend on here.
I want to see you discuss it in public
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
You think Scottish politicians are any different?
You are delusional.
When we become independent at least they will be our privately educated kiddy fiddlers.
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
John and hammer both have different views, can we see you two have a discussion on here?
Your problem is the loss of prestige of the British Empire, the reality of which is it became an insignificant backwater years ago.
The Pound can't stand up against the Dollar, Euro or even Yen internationally and when we enter wars now it's at the say so of the Americans.
Maybe so, but there are a lot of scots that don't agree with you. Even your closest friend on here.
I want to see you discuss it in public
Steve is my closest friend on here.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by John
Just saying on the news there that at some point its changed from a debate on the complete lack of facts to a debate on passion. In the year 2014 I don't think we should be making this sort of decision based on passion, probably one for the head rather than the heart.
I take it you're a No then, John?
Finding the whole thing fascinating, a proper interesting time to be in Scotland. Everytime I've been at a house party or out with people the topic inevitably ends up being about the referendum and which way people are voting. Heard good arguments from both sides, it's really divided people.
Definitely, it's been a shambles from both sides with a last minute, completely unexpected, turn for Yes.
As for OJC's question, we don't agree on everything, but I know when Hammer has a differing point of view, it'll be well thought out and he'll have good reasons for it.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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John aka Rob Roy
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
I don't mind if they leave or if they stay. But if they do leave then they can't keep the currency....
This is my view as well; if Scotland leaves then they should grow some bollocks and 'go it alone' and have a complete separation, none of this mincing around with "but we'll keep blah and blah" 
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Scotland isnt the enemy, the south is. Once Scotland goes, we (northerners) need to join them and start the northern revolution.
Never understood the chip on the shoulders of the archaic northerners who still believe there's a north south divide; majority of southerners don't particularly have a 'problem' with the north nor see any real divide.
It all seems a little narrow minded to me.....
[Edited on 10-09-2014 by Dom]
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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There is a divide, note it's mostly Southerners that disregard it.
Also what is mincing around about saying we'll keep the Pound. Of course we will, it's our pound as much as any other part of the UK. Confirmed by the leader of the Better Together campaign himself to an audience of millions.
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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But you won't be part of the UK. So it won't be your pound any more.
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Eck
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
I'm happy for you I can call myself English.
If its a Yes vote I'll be removing you from Xbox.
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
But you won't be part of the UK. So it won't be your pound any more.
Scotland helped get the pound to where it is today, it is one of our collective assets. The debt the UK has built up is a collective liability. If we are assuming our share of the debt then we take our share of the currency. End of story.
Alistair Darling has already let the cat out of the bag, 'of course we can still use the pound' his exact words.
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
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You can shar the pound but then you will be governed by the bank of England.
As a scenario - if England starts to do well scotland starts to find it hard, BoE put interest rates up, Scottish will then just get screwed even more as they won't control the currency.
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