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[quote][i]Originally posted by RichR[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by John[/i] Just read Ben's link, I didn't even know that you were trying to be a smart are because you are into boats, even more gutted for being wrong. [/quote] I'm not trying to be a smart arse John, simply pointing out that you are incorrect which you do to others on a daily basis. Whether I'm 'into' boats or not is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that it should only be referred to as a 'Jack' when it is flying from a jackstaff and representing the home country and not the flag state authority to which a vessel is registered. The Express article is twaddle and written to the benefit of the author and has grasped at conjecture to which one paper written by the Flag Institute has also grasped. Vessels, especially Naval vessels fly flags - when at sea, the Flag State Authority flag is flown showing the country or assosciation of registry, not necessarily the country of origin or ownership and henceforth, they fly their home colours when alongside or moored- the pole from which it is flown is the 'jackstaff'. The UK MoD states "The Union Flag is to be worn as a Jack... during the hours laid down in Para 9136, by ships in harbour, at anchor, secured to a buoy or alongside, but not when in dock" - the MoD regulations being the origin of the point at which a Union Flag becomes a Union Jack. Any flag flown from any jackstaff is a jack flag - not just the Union Jack. This isn't flown at sea as the article alludes to and in addition look up the various HMS designated land bases (such as the current HMS president in London) if you want evidence negating the point raised in the article that it's flown at sea - simply put, it's not. I've also read the Flag Institute paper which suggest that a flagstaff didn't exist until the 1800s, again, utter rubbish. The jackstaff didn't give it's name to what it flew, what it flew gave its name to the staff. Originally, a Jack was a small flag flown from the masthead of a ship. The jackstaff was simply the name give to the pennant pole from which any small flag was flown. The 1800's confusion comes because that is when the term was adopted formally for a flag pole mounted to the bow sprit - the flag, being a small masthead flag, was always known as a Jack on a ship, primarily because we began to not have masts as we moved from Sail to Engines during the IR - you couldn't fly the Jack from the masthead if there wasn't one. There is some conjecture that it could be an abbreviation of Jacobean as James I who originated the British flag was from the Jacobean period but there is no hard or fast evidence to support this, it's only ever thrown about by those attempting to argue that it should always be called the jack. The full title of the Union Flag is the 'Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', it is clearly impractical to say that everytime it's mentioned and as such the Union Flag is the only agreed abbreviation prior to the parliamentary discussion of 1902. Just because is often referred to as the Union Jack doesn't make it technically correct. You're a huge advocate of correcting the wrong or ill informed but you hate it when the tables are turned, resorting to petty name calling instead. Edit: didn't realise that was so much of a Paul J essay. [Edited on 20-09-2014 by RichR] [/quote]
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