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Author big end
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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13th Oct 03 at 15:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

2 questions:

1) any ideas what it would cost in parts and labour to replace the 'big end' part of the engine?

2) can anyone say whether a 'big end' going could in any way be related to work carried out on the cam belt area and valves

cheers

miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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13th Oct 03 at 16:01   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The 'big end' bearings connect the crank to the rods, so your really looking at changing the BE bearings. They cost around 30, you'll also need an oil change 15, new rod bolts 10, exhaust manifold gasket 5 and maybe a sump gasket 10.. Changing them is easy,

Drain Oil
Drop exhaust manifold
remove sump
remove 8 rod bolts
Slide old bearings out and replace.
Refit 8 rod bolts with correct torque settings (important)
Refit sump
Refit exhaust manifold
Fill with oil.

If the bearings have gone badly they could have turned on the crank which would mean a regrind, which basically is an engine out job......

When mine went (Used cheap ones on rebuild which didn't like abuse, the kept blocking up my oil pressure relief valve after taking to 8k and i realised the problem after a session at Castle Combe) I changed them in about 2 hours in the rain under my car on the road outside my house....With a proper ramp its easy money.

It could be some swarf or debris that was left in the engine when the head was removed/worked on. If that got in the bearings it wouldn't be good....

Could also be due to lack of oil....

Have you had the oil pressure warning light on?
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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13th Oct 03 at 16:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

nope - oil was changed 2 days earlier with cam belt and valve replacement work. I'm sure the garage have f^cked up somewhere, but aren't accepting responsibility for causing a second breakdown.
Is it possible to be this unlucky and have 2 big engine problems in such quick succession?
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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13th Oct 03 at 16:27   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Its possible, but unlikely. If it is BE bearings then its got to be an oil or bits in oil problem.

Dont let them do the work again, take it somewhere else, then ask them what caused it. If they say something that is the first companies fault then you have a case.
ffls
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Registered: 29th May 02
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   13th Oct 03 at 16:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I don't know what type of garages you guys use outhere
My engine has had 77 k of abuse and punishment and it still runs OK.
A compression test revealed that it was at 98% of maximum, and equal in all cylinders!
It must be related with regular oil changes of very good quality.
Has Graham Bell says in its book you should use synthetic oil and replace it every 240 days.
Now, I only use Bardhal XTR racing engine oil 10w 60 much better than CASTROL or MOBIL 1. And do you know?
Cheaper than the above brands here in Portugal!!!!
I also recommend the use of redline oils, alsovery good stuff
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 11:36   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

So does anyone know if its possible to replace the big end by just dropping the sump and putting new shelves in - rather than having to get the whole engine out?
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 11:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ok - this is how it sounded for me - going 80mph on motorway to start with.
Really quiet rattling noise to start. I dropped speed a touch. Rattling noise steadily grew over the next minute or two. I almost thought maybe my exhaust pipe was falling off (not blowing, but just rattling around).
Noise grew - some variations in power (i'd slowed to 50-60mph by this time)
Then engine cuts when clutch is engaged due to increased friction.
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 11:45   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

actually sorry - i misread the question - thought you wanted to know how it sounded when it went.

After effect for me is a big b%stard garage bill!
On advice of rescue people, I've not started it up since.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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14th Oct 03 at 11:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

scorchingpost, what didn't you understand about my post?!

Adam, my oil pressure relief valve kept sticking, and when we unjammed it and took it out there was small bits of metal swarf in the bore that had obviously jammed it, so we knew something was shedding metal when it was driven hard. The BE bearings take a lot more load than the mains, and we then realised that we had used cheap bearings without really thinking about it. So I dropped the sump off and top a rod cap off and sure enough the shell was scored. There was also a load of metal filings in the sump. I drove it home from castle combe (150miles) gently like it.

I didn't really notice anything before i changed them, but i think it was a bit smoother afterwards. I luckily caught it early because I found a side effect of the problem before the effects of it were felt.
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 11:53   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

sorry miles, your post is very clear.
I guess i'm asking whether garage need to have the engine out to even assess the damage - or whether they can drop sump and change BE and associated stuff - whilst assessing any further damage (crank etc) at that point?

As is probably obvious, i know nothing about cars other than i like driving them - so I kind of need telling twice!!!
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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14th Oct 03 at 11:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If the rod bolts are lose, and one snaps or comes out then you could quite easily throw a rod through the block, screwing the whole engine.......

For me the main problem was having a load of metal floating around the engine, which will obviously damage other things.

But left it could screw the rod, the crank and maybe risk the chance of throwing a rod.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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14th Oct 03 at 11:57   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

First step would be to take the sump off, you can then look at the main bearings, the crank, the BE bearings etc. So has the garage actually heard the car running or are they going by what the recovery said?
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 11:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

garage have it on the ramp now. Quote coming back later today i hope.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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14th Oct 03 at 12:01   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The same garage?
scorchingpost
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14th Oct 03 at 12:03   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

it is the same garage. At first i never considered letting them near the car - but after some sound advice from a mechanic i've been put in touch with - he was sure that the big end problem was unrelated to my cam repairs. He suggested i get quotes and depending upon the outcome, consider either having new engine, new lower part of engine or going ahead with repairs.
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 12:14   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

already is a 1.6
i don't see why a new one is such a good option. Presumably there'll be as much labour involved in fitting a whole new engine as there will be diving in and replacing a few parts. Bear in mind my top end has just been rebuilt anyway, so the engine would effectively be refurbished anyway.
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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14th Oct 03 at 12:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i guess i'll wait see what the damage is - 2L is tempting, i'd love that, but probably will destroy my insurance premium!
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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14th Oct 03 at 12:45   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

A garage isn't going to drop the sump, check and replace for free.......so getting quotes is a non starter, if it is big end, it will just be the shells. TBH, i wouldn't be happy putting it down to coincidence, you've now given them a chance to cover up any mistakes that might have been made.
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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23rd Oct 03 at 14:22   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

sorted now - new x16xe short engine in, car running better than ever.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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23rd Oct 03 at 15:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

what exactly did they do? how much? what happened/broke?

Did you take it back to the same place?
scorchingpost
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Registered: 2nd Oct 03
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23rd Oct 03 at 16:03   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Big end bearings were shot - crank damaged, con rods damaged.
Got hold of replacement short engine, and fitted it - parts and labour all in for 700
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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23rd Oct 03 at 16:10   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

short engine = bottom end?

Why did it happen?
rallyjohn
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Registered: 1st Feb 03
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23rd Oct 03 at 23:29   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ever heard of that saying that goes something like this

A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS

this sounds like pub talk so best leave alone
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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24th Oct 03 at 07:52   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote


 
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