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Author porszak's c16xe, stage 0.75-176hp/187Nm=140lb*ft. project c18xe smallblock
porszak
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Registered: 3rd Jul 06
Location: PoLand
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24th Nov 07 at 22:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Many times, there was some discussion about connecting c/x16xe and x18xe1/z18xe parts in one engine. So I want to show U little something.
Basic engine: c16xe with about 150 000km behind it
At first I wanted to have only fast c16xe, I disassembled engine only to check it. It was in good condition, but then came idea to do something unusual.
Many hours in the net and I started collecting parts.
Thatís the result

max hp 157hp@6585 and 195Nm=144lb*ft@4790 (so torque is the same like in std c20xe)
and afr. We did 3 runs and during only one afr was too poor in about 5000rpm


What is done:
c16xe rods with z18xe crank and pistons
head work-intake and exhaust runners and valves,flowbench, cr 11.4, porting
Schrick 264 degrees cams
Balanced, crank, pistons and rods
SuperSprint exhaust manifold without catalyzer and rest of exhaust 2.25 inch
Upper part of inlet manifold from x14xe
ECU without remap

When spring come there will be mantzel style inlet and remap

here You can find many pics from engine work, all things i could i did by myself
http://www.forum.tuning.info.pl/viewtopic.php?t=52957&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


[Edited on 01-10-2008 by porszak]
jamesvalver
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Registered: 21st Feb 03
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
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24th Nov 07 at 23:00   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

thats very good power. is it a 1600cc or a 1800cc?
porszak
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Location: PoLand
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24th Nov 07 at 23:05   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

c16xe with z18xe crank and pistons

so nearly 1800ccm
sand-eel
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Registered: 15th Mar 07
Location: carluke/braidwood--IRNBRULAND
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15th Dec 07 at 00:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

longer stroke, so how do you space the crank lower to stop the pistons smashing off the head?
Superlite Ltd.
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15th Dec 07 at 10:34   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by porszak
When spring come there will be mantzel style inlet and remap

[Edited on 25-11-2007 by porszak]


So you made 157bhp on the OE c16xe upper inlet manifold?
porszak
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16th Dec 07 at 18:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by sand-eel
longer stroke, so how do you space the crank lower to stop the pistons smashing off the head?

z18xe's pistons are shorter than c16xe's pistons


and 157bhp is with x14xe upper inlet manifold

[Edited on 16-12-2007 by porszak]
Dave A
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16th Dec 07 at 19:40   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

good figures but a problem with the coastdown losses (shows a loss of 40bhp from coastdown) which is about 30%.

and without a remap the extra CC's wont make any difference as you are effectively just reducing the VE of the engine (volumetric efficiency) also the cams will gain no power without the remap.

[Edited on 16-12-2007 by Dave A]
Robin
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16th Dec 07 at 19:45   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I'd imagine there's quite a lot of restriction on the X14XE inlet with the 16 head and nearly 1800ccs.
Dave A
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16th Dec 07 at 19:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

inlet is irrelevant robin, if only enough fuel and ignition is being used for standar cams and 1600cc the 1800cc bottom end wont make the slightest bit of difference.
Robin
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16th Dec 07 at 19:51   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I agree, without a remap it won't make a difference, but set up properly, it would make bigger numbers with a larger inlet than the X14 one.
Dave A
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16th Dec 07 at 20:36   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

presactly robin.
Superlite Ltd.
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17th Dec 07 at 09:09   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by porszak

ECU without remap
[Edited on 25-11-2007 by porszak]




how the fcuk....
Dave A
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17th Dec 07 at 11:22   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

so whats the exact spec? standard z18xe crank and pistons with c16xe conrods?
porszak
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18th Dec 07 at 02:05   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Dave A
good figures but a problem with the coastdown losses (shows a loss of 40bhp from coastdown) which is about 30%.

and without a remap the extra CC's wont make any difference as you are effectively just reducing the VE of the engine (volumetric efficiency) also the cams will gain no power without the remap.

[Edited on 16-12-2007 by Dave A]



i don't know, i understand U in right way, but...
i had the same losses with x10xe engine, and i think this value is quite normal for fwd

how U can say i reduced VE if torque is 195Nm=144lb*ft(the same as std c20xe). this torque is so big because of better VE, and alsa because of cams

and according to, that what U are saing, U think that this dyno result is possible with normal 1600 swept volume??

exact spec is in 1 post. Yes, there are c16's rods

[Edited on 18-12-2007 by porszak]
Dave A
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18th Dec 07 at 10:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

volumetric efficiency is basicly the amount of power yopu can make from the CC's of the engine.

if you make 100 bhp from 1600cc then you have good VE but if you make the same engine 1800cc without altering the ignition timing and fuelling the engine will effectively be running the same power (or less) as the extra cylinder volume is not being used to its full potential so you will have lowered the VE of the 1800cc, or lowered the VE that it is capable of.
porszak
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18th Dec 07 at 12:22   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

if you just want to say this engine needs to be remaped, i'm agree with You

but i can't agree with saing, that extra CC's are not used. it's c16xe with maf not x16 with map sensor, each c16 without remap will be runnig better than x16 without remap

if extra CC's won't be used, power could be smaller, but it isn't



[Edited on 18-12-2007 by porszak]
Dave A
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18th Dec 07 at 14:00   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I have spent hours mapping 1600 corsas with standalone management, 8500 rev limit, cams and headwork with proper exhaust manifolds and throttle bodies and struggle to achieve the figures you have got from just a different crank and pistons.

however, good project and cant wait to see the results with a decent inlet and mapping
porszak
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18th Dec 07 at 23:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

one of reasons i made this engine in this way was i didn't find any info about somebody did it. here and on mig web were only people who were thinking is it possible?thanks to these people i found only one french corsa tuned by Mantzel in this way. only one in the net....

Dave tell me please, couse i'm just curious what was the biggest torque You ever made from 1600cc. i think that torque i have now will drops after put mantzel inlet

[Edited on 18-12-2007 by porszak]
Dave A
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19th Dec 07 at 10:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

most torque I have ever made from a 1600 is on mine which makes about 145 ft/lb. thats a massive engine spec with 300 degree cams, steel bottom end, high compression and hours and hours of mapping. Infact I struggle to get that much out of the 1800 engines.
sand-eel
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19th Dec 07 at 13:12   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I think the rolling road is talking crap really, maybe if the engine was revving to 8000rpm but it isn't.
ffls
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19th Dec 07 at 20:15   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

funny enough my rr results indicate a power loss by drag of 34cv at 6800.
And it was the same that measure 89cv for the standard X14XE so is well calibrated

So 34+117=152bhp

I don't think the RR is so bad calibrate at all.

And the ECU GM is self calibrating for the fuel to, while you need a remap with the MAntzel type induction

www.customefis.com

read if you want how to tune the GM ECU real time
markos
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19th Dec 07 at 23:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by sand-eelI think the rolling road is talking crap
oh really.. maha is actually one of the most accurate rr..

just because none of you reached that much power/torque from a frankenstein engine doesn't necessarily have to mean that this is not possible. c16xe used in this project was mine, then i sold a corsa and this engine. i was going to do some mods on a 1.6, and i'm really happy to see that someone's has done even more than i was planning to do this is actually going to be one of the best modified smallblock frank engines in a corsa in poland!!

[Edited on 19-12-2007 by markos]
porszak
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1st Oct 08 at 11:06   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

ok, so i'm back with again not quite finished project but with bigger power.
this is result with std c16xe injectors+mantzel look power box, and std ecu with rev limit set at 7000rpm. afr 12.5-13


 
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