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Author Is there a different between...
Haimsey
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Registered: 8th May 05
Location: Nottingham Drives: Corsa B
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16th Mar 07 at 03:30   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

downward gear changing in the following way -

double clutching (as to waht i believe it to be) -
clutch down > out of gear
clutch up
tap accelerator
clutch down > into lower gear
clutch up

AND

what ever this would be -
clutch down > out of gear
tap accelerator (clutch still depressed)
into lower gear > clutch up

just curious

help, opinions, disussion, comments, pics, other words so this can be in GC and not HZ


Marcy Marc

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powey
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Registered: 6th Nov 05
Location: Gwent, South Wales
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16th Mar 07 at 06:19   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

there would be a difference in the amount of time taken?
Depends on gearbox i suppose
Cupra Steve
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16th Mar 07 at 08:11   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.
Toby
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16th Mar 07 at 11:15   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.


so same as the first as they are both not in gear
sam-smith
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Location: plymouth, UK
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16th Mar 07 at 11:16   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

haimsey
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:22   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Double declutching is as follows:

Clutch in
Into neutral
Clutch out
Plip throttle to raise speed of layshaft to match roadspeed
Clutch in
Into lower gear
Clutch out

Combine that with heel and toe braking for rapid decelerative gearchanges that keep the car balanced into a corner.
CorsAsh
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Location: Munich
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16th Mar 07 at 11:24   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Second one would just increase engine speed, and not affect the gearbox layshaft, so you're still relying on the syncros to take up the slack when you select new gear and let the clutch out.

[Edited on 16-03-2007 by CorsAsh]
chrisj_88
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Registered: 22nd Sep 06
Location: Dewsbury
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16th Mar 07 at 11:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

when i switch down a gear i dont bother tapping the accelerator before putting it into a lower gear. i just:

clutch in
out of gear and into lower gear
clutch up
floor it

is this bad? just means ure flung forward and then back in your chair
FruitBooTeR
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Registered: 18th Jan 07
Location: Wolverhampton Drives: S15
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16th Mar 07 at 11:34   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by chrisj_88
when i switch down a gear i dont bother tapping the accelerator before putting it into a lower gear. i just:

clutch in
out of gear and into lower gear
clutch up
floor it


is this bad? just means ure flung forward and then back in your chair


Same era lmao


[Edited on 16-03-2007 by FruitBooTeR]
Alex16v
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Registered: 30th Jun 06
Location: Chester Drives: Civic ep3 final edition
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16th Mar 07 at 11:35   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:35   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

It's bad for a few reasons:

If you're driving quickly (on a track of course) you're shifting all the weight to the front wheels, which means when you turn in, the back end will be light and you'll be dealing with an oversteer situation.

You're putting more strain on your engine, gearbox, clutch and suspension as they all struggle to bring the roadspeed down to match the revs. Keep doing it and eventually your syncs will give up and go home.

You're gonna look like a wally and no one will want to get a lift from you.


Go on a driver training course, it'll help.
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Alex16v
When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.



You dont need to raise revs on an upchange... some people do it on drag strips - "powershifting" - but all you're doing is raising the revs for the clutch and box to bring them back down and accelerate normally through the rev range.
Rachel H
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Location: Berks
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16th Mar 07 at 11:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks
Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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16th Mar 07 at 11:40   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Are you asking about heal and toe down changes?
Cupra Steve
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16th Mar 07 at 11:42   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks


my mate can do this in his mini?
Alex16v
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Location: Chester Drives: Civic ep3 final edition
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16th Mar 07 at 11:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by CorsAsh
quote:
Originally posted by Alex16v
When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.



You dont need to raise revs on an upchange... some people do it on drag strips - "powershifting" - but all you're doing is raising the revs for the clutch and box to bring them back down and accelerate normally through the rev range.


Thanks I was just guessing. Iwill drive normal again now lol. If i ever get a working car again.
Cupra Steve
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16th Mar 07 at 11:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by CorsaB4ever
quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.


so same as the first as they are both not in gear


no as the first one states Put into lower gear
Steve X16XE
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16th Mar 07 at 11:43   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

whilst brakeing.
Clutch down change gear, and the same time roll your foot that is on the brake to the accelerator, cluth up and foot down.

Sounds fantastic. When people are watching you brake and rev up and change gear at the same time, they look puzzled.
Steve X16XE
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16th Mar 07 at 11:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks


my mate can do this in his mini?


All (as far as i know) manual gearbox's can do this.

When driving rev up to about 2k in 3rd. Lift off the accelerator apply preasure to the gearstick to go into 4th and it'll slip in. No grinding done.
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:48   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Well done, you just described heel and toe downchanging.

It's actually good for your components, bad for your fuel consumption.
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE
quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks


my mate can do this in his mini?


All (as far as i know) manual gearbox's can do this.

When driving rev up to about 2k in 3rd. Lift off the accelerator apply preasure to the gearstick to go into 4th and it'll slip in. No grinding done.


It's called rev matching. The old lorries you hear on films that cruch had "crash gearboxes" - basically no syncromeshes, so the driver had to match the roadspeed to the engine speed to get a smooth change or you got the crashing noise.
AuroraSport
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16th Mar 07 at 11:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

aye shame i cant do it with my clown feet i just end up mashing the pedals
Steve X16XE
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16th Mar 07 at 11:52   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by CorsAsh
Well done, you just described heel and toe downchanging.

It's actually good for your components, bad for your fuel consumption.


You haven't seen me drive Fuel consumption is nowhere to be seen

:big head: I can say that I perfected the heel and toe in one week. Been doing it now for 2 months. Try it. When you get it right...... Everything is soooo smoooth.
CorsAsh
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16th Mar 07 at 11:53   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I do it without thinking now.
Steve X16XE
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16th Mar 07 at 11:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by AuroraSport
aye shame i cant do it with my clown feet i just end up mashing the pedals


What size are your feet?

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