Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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spent the day down at Track Car Solutions on monday to learn more about rolling roads and mapping. Met the guy who owns Dyno Dynamics (thats the rolling road I am buying) bloke called mike gurney, very well known in the race and rally car world, also a touring car specialist.
anyway, got the car on the rollers and it consistently ran 155bhp @7000 rpm. didnt rev it to 8200 rpm where the limit is as the RPM reading from the car was out and I wasnt sure how close I was to the limiter until looking at the graphs after the run. plugged the laptop into the ecu and it seems that the rpm signal that the ecu had been using was incorrect, meaning that my map was out by 300 rpm.
anyway, after a bit of fiddling and checking the map we discovered that it has been mapped really well (by Nobles) but slightly on the safe side as it was a road car, they had kept it slightly rich and kept the ignition on the safe side. mike recons that with a bit more mapping to lean it out slightly and taking out a lot of ignition it should see another 10-15 bhp and more torque. 
for more info on dyno dyamics machines see: http://www.dyno.com.au/index.htm
and if you want an ACCURATE rolling road graph then these are now officially the most precise RR in the world and are used by the police, government, military, porsche, honda etc... the accuracy is because theres a mode called shootout mode in which the operator has no control over the graph. it simply cant be cheated to give a false reading as it self calibrates every time the rollers stop moving. If an operator is found to be fiddling the machine then Dyno Dynamics cancel the operators licence and revoke the software.
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sxi boy
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
Location: north east Drives: clio 182
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whereabouts is that place then?? a few of us from cliosport.net are after having a big group rr day in the north east soon
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Dave why oh why didnt you settle for bolt on bits, you would have well over 160bhp ffs
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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quote:
Originally posted by sxi boy
whereabouts is that place then?? a few of us from cliosport.net are after having a big group rr day in the north east soon
well my dyno is tuning up soon, you are welcome to come along and use it I am in boldon. the place I went to, track car solutions is down in chesterfield.
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sxi boy
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
Location: north east Drives: clio 182
User status: Offline
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nice one fella, when you expecting to get your dyno?
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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I know steve might trade the tb's in for a homemade mantzel box and imaginary remap with graph paper and crayolas.
I wasnt disapointed with the result as when it was overlayed with my rolling road graph from nobles it was almost identical and showed that If the RPM signal was being recieved correclty and I had revved it to 8200 rpm then I would have seen 175-180 bhp as usual. still managed to see off a 172 this moring tho
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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quote:
Originally posted by sxi boy
nice one fella, when you expecting to get your dyno?
i am 3-4 weeks away as it needs to be brought over from the states. worth the wait though as it will be the most advanced and up to date RR in the north east. its amazing the stuff this thing can do that other RR just dream of!
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
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The Dyno dynamics roller at TMS cost £140k!!!
Im guessing you are pretty loaded then
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sxi boy
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
Location: north east Drives: clio 182
User status: Offline
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you'll have to gimme a shout when you get it then n i'll mention it on cliosport
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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I was, Im in debt now
worth spending the extra on this dyno though. I have seen and reaseared a few others but this is simply amazing and worth every penny. rather than using a gig heavy wheel and magnets to measure the force of the cars wheels, it uses super lighweight rollers and lots of electronics. its so delicate you can even dyno a pushbike or a remote control car !
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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quote:
Originally posted by sxi boy
you'll have to gimme a shout when you get it then n i'll mention it on cliosport
if you want any info on it inc videos to show them how good it is, send an e-mail to: sales@vsportonline.co.uk and I will send some stuff back
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
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It might make you look a little daft though...
The roller at TMS consistently measures below other 'respected' rollers 
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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this is true with most dyno dynamics rollers. the reason is because nearly evert other rolling road (exept dynojet rolling roads) use a coastdown method to 'guess' the losses through the transmission to convert the wheel power to the flywheel power (this is the reaso I prefer the wheel power to fly power)
coastdown is affected by so many other factors which include tyrp pressure, condition of gearbox, condition of cv joints, weight of the car, condition of clutch, even if a brake pad is touching the disc it will count as transmission loss and affect the conversion from wheel power to fly power. so most overcompensate for this and give a few % extra to the conversion factor as the conversion factor is selectable by the dyno operator.
on a dyno dynamics RR there is no conversion factor. that means that it cannot be overcompensated. the conversion factor these RR use is set by the weight of the vehicle, and uses a very clever (and complicated) technique to determine fly power.
as a test Dyno Dynamics did a RR on a new BMW m3. it came out 60 bhp down on bmw's book figure. they then removed the power steering, aircon, waterpump, clutch, gearbox, alternator etc.. ran it on an engine dyno and it produced the exact BHP that BMW had given it as a book figure.
the bmw was then taken to a different rolling road that used the coastdown method to determine bhp. it made 6bhp more than the book figure bmw gave the engine, this meant that it was 66bhp out!
this proved that most car manufacturers figures are not true as they are tested on an engine dyno with the engine out of the car with no ancilliaries.
[Edited on 18-10-2006 by Dave A]
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