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Author Highway code
Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
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17th Jan 04 at 19:21   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Is this available on the web anywhere or can anyone scan me the page on roundabouts? I need to win a dispute over a road accident
Dan B
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17th Jan 04 at 19:23   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#160
Ian
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17th Jan 04 at 19:25   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Cheers!
Mase
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17th Jan 04 at 19:26   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i'm scanning as i speak !!!


Mase
Mase
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17th Jan 04 at 19:26   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

bugger u beat me 2 it !!


Mase
Dan B
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17th Jan 04 at 20:05   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Heheh, can't beat the internet!
Ian
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17th Jan 04 at 20:57   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
willay
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17th Jan 04 at 21:39   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Dan B
Heheh, can't beat the internet!


tell me about it, the last level is bloody hard to beat
Drew
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17th Jan 04 at 21:41   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.


when you are in queues of traffic
Drew
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17th Jan 04 at 21:41   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

oops - i read that as 'CAN overtake'
cobra148
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18th Jan 04 at 09:34   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.


You can't overtake on the inside, this is known as "undertaking". Should only be done as Drew says, if your in slow moving queues of traffic and your queue is moving faster than the one on your right.
You can also pass on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right, and theres enough room for you to safely pass.
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?
Ian
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18th Jan 04 at 18:35   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by cobra148
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?
Not me, my brother two years ago and its still ongoing. I'm familiar with the general rules but I didn't have anything specific and authorititive to quote from.

The other guy will get a shock anyway, I'm up to 800 words already and I've only just finished countering 2 of his 8 points.
TRL
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18th Jan 04 at 18:57   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I think in a lot of instances the insurance companies go 50/50 on roundabout 'accidents' like this, because if both drivers had been observant it wouldn't have happenned at all.

Tony


[Edited on 18-01-2004 by TRL]
Ian
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18th Jan 04 at 19:16   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

The main thing in my brother defence is that the guy turning off crossed his path to leave and thats where the collision took place. Plus he was going left and joined it in the outside lane. Its not the first exit so its not cut and dried but I'm not convinced about his choice of lane!
cobra148
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18th Jan 04 at 19:30   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I had a similar thing at our local motorway junction. I came down the slip road and the left lane is for going left or straight on, its all clearly marked with arrows on the road. The right lane is also for going straight on. I was in the left lane about to go straight on when a guy in the right lane cut straight into the side of me hitting my car and forcing me onto the hard shoulder. As TRL says, insurance co's usually go for 50/50 in roundabout prangs.
Ian
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18th Jan 04 at 19:32   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

They're the exact same road markings!
cobra148
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18th Jan 04 at 19:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

So your bro in law was in the left lane when a guy on his right cut across into him as he attempted to leave the roundabout?
Sounds like he could have realised he was going to miss his exit and cut across the lanes. Looking at it that way, then it would appear that he is at fault.
Does your bro in law have any independant witnesses, if he does then it looks good in his favour, if not, then they may well call it 50/50.
Ian
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18th Jan 04 at 19:44   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

No witnesses at all, thats why it's been ongoing for some time. The guy has a half baked case of my bro speeding past him on the inside but most of his statement is subjective and he's made fundemental errors in lane choice and the fact he admitted to seeing no vehicles being there.

I'd have said it was there going too fast, not I missed it totally!
cobra148
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18th Jan 04 at 19:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

It looks to me that they'll call it 50/50, your bro in laws insurance saying the other guy cut across the lanes ( could be driving without due care and attention), and the other guys insurance is going to say your bro in law was passing n the inside. Good luck contending it, but its one of those grey area cases.
el gordo
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19th Jan 04 at 02:17   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.


the only specific legislation that covers overtaking on the inside is Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847!

Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 provides, amongst other things, that 'Every person in charge of any waggon, cart, or carriage, who does not, when passing another carriage, keep his own vehicle to the right or off side' is guilty of an offence for which, believe it or not, the penalty is 14 days imprisonment!

The offence has to be committed to the 'obstruction, annoyance, or danger of residents or passengers' so it is unlikely that proceedings would be instigated under this legislation except on the complaint of a third person, possibly the person 'undertaken', although there would seem to be no reason in law why a police officer who witnessed such an offence could not him/herself be 'annoyed' by it. And, although you might think that reference in this Act to 'wagons, carts and carriages' couldn't possibly have any relevance to today's high speed roads, you might be surprised to learn that, by virtue of Section 191 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, 'a motor vehicle is a carriage', so that section 28 could be utilised to deal with the comparatively modern practise of 'undertaking' on motorways. It has to be said, though, that prosecutions under this particular legislation are, to put it mildly, 'rare'. The main drawback and, hence, why the legislation is now little used is that offences under this act are not endorsable. Hardly surprising when you consider that the Act was passed fully fifty years before the first motor car was seen on the roads and and nearer one hundred years before driving licences were introduced, let alone the concept of 'penalty points'.



here ian - i thought you were a copper? thats twice I've pointed chapter and verse for ya now



[Edited on 19-01-2004 by el gordo]
el gordo
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19th Jan 04 at 02:19   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by cobra148
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.


You can't overtake on the inside, this is known as "undertaking". Should only be done as Drew says, if your in slow moving queues of traffic and your queue is moving faster than the one on your right.
You can also pass on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right, and theres enough room for you to safely pass.
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?


depends on the constabulary.

i have an e-mail from south yorkshire police saying it's fine so long as it's reasonable and safe to execute the manouver without causing concern or distress, though it's up to the discretion of the officer in question.

I also have an e-mail from Derbyshire quoting about 8 laws they can do you with and are happy to do so rather than exercising some discretion and individual thought.
el gordo
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19th Jan 04 at 02:28   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

i had a good prang on a roundabout almost a year ago to the day - 4th or 5th jan i think it was... (funnily enough, I hit a Corsa! scouse bloke visiting his nottingham girlfriend).

me turning right, already on it (big roundabout). Traffic waiting to emerge from 2nd exit as I go round to 3rd, signal flashing away, 2 cars decide to nail it and go in front of me so I lift off, but the one nearest me bottled it and braked... leaving me 1 car length at 30mph on a damp recently-gritted roundabout to stop... CRUNCH!!!

Off we pull, exchange details, and fortunately I had the forethought to go back half an hour later and take photos from a dozen angles, showing the debris...


All going smooth for a week then I get a solicitors letter saying the scouse twat is gonna sue for losses, lost earnings, personal injury and other things... unfortunately he'd neglected to remember he breached a give-way line, entered a roundabout in front of traffic moving from his right (to which you always give way) and stopped in the path of another vehicle so causing an accident.

turns out his legal protection and insurance co didn't even know he'd instructed solicitors and had agreed with my company (the pru, top notch these guys) that the knobber in the corsa was completely at fault, settled the claim and repaid my excess to me
The pru just told me to post them the threatening letters from his lawyers and they'd sort it.

i got an apology from the solicitor shortly after confirming there was no case to answer

result!


TRL
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24th Jan 04 at 09:38   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Nice report there gordo!
If only it always came out the reight way.
A cheap digi cam is a good thing to carry in the glove box!

Tony
el gordo
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24th Jan 04 at 20:39   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

very true.

or camera phone these days (no good at night mind).

just beware taking flash photography near traffic of course
Leighton
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24th Jan 04 at 20:49   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Were was it Ian ????

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