stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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I've recently discovered from a potential buyer of one of my motorcycles that a HPI report has returned results showing that there's outstanding finance owed against the bike. According to the report, the previous owner took out a loan secured against the bike's V5 using a company called logbook loans ltd. This was done in the July, and I bought the bike in August. I can't remember if I did a HPI check myself, but am 90% sure I did.
Anyway, I've contacted logbook loans and they say they are still chasing the previous owner for the money (which is in fact more than the current value of the bike), but also have interest in the bike for re-possession. I explained that I bought the bike for cash over a year ago and have the V5 in my name, but they insist that they are the legal owners and have a bill of sale to prove this. They advised that I should either surrender the bike to them or pay them the money owed and then I would have to make a claim against the previous owner for the money I paid him.
I told them that I had no intention of letting them have the bike. I understand that although they can legally reposes the bike from me, they have no powers of entry to do so. I also told them that the chances of them finding it at the registered address would be slim  I asked how I would legally stand with this approach, and they said they couldn’t actually have me prosecuted for this as the money isn't owed by myself. They would just continue to try and pursue the money from the previous owner. I figured that if they havent managed to get the money after more than 12 months, I've got even less chance.
Anyway my questions are; If I continue to use the bike in the meantime, would the police be likely to stop me on behalf of the finance company and seize the bike or hold me until they show up themselves? And if I were to crash the bike and claim on my insurance, would they pay me the value of the bike, or would they HPI the bike and pay out any outstanding parties ahead of myself?
Any advise would be great, I've never been faced with this sort of problem before and am gutted  I will be checking through my old emails and bank records to try and find out for sure if I ran a HPI report as that may return some sort of refund if I was incorrectly informed. The annoying thing about this is that it's a civil matter and I stand to be shat on for doing nothing wrong really. HPI reports aren't a legal requirement, yet you can loose out big time and the person who causes the problem gets away with it 
I do have the address of the guy that sold me the bike and he showed me ID at his house. I think I have further details about him on my email archive and I have a written reciept.. don't know how this might help me yet, but I will be paying a visit very shortly to see if he still lives there.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
User status: Offline
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Rock and hard place mate.
I don't think the Police like to get involved in matters like this, but if Logbook loans have a decent collections department they would be trying to track down the current owner, if the bike is worth a substantial amount and it's going to cover the cost of the intial loan if sold at auction I'd imagine they might spend more time trying to seize the bike.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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They've told me that the bike's current market value is less than the money owed to them.
They already knew I was the current owner without me giving them my details - guess they've previously contacted the DVLA. But I've told them the bike will not be found and I've been advised they can't chase me for other assets if they can't get the bike off me.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
User status: Offline
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The loan is tied to the bike regardless of owner, if they took it to court I doubt you would have a leg to stand on I'm afraid.
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
Location: wolverhampton/cannock
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I'd honestly contact a solicitor in all fairness bud.
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Conway563
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Registered: 7th Jun 06
Location: Yate, Bristol
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Unfortunately this is becoming more and more common. Take out a loan against a V5 and thensell the car/bike.
Generally speaking like Ollie says you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court as the loan is against the bike regardless of who owns it.
See if you can find any record of having a HPI done as it looks like that may be your only chance of getting anything out of this
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
The loan is tied to the bike regardless of owner, if they took it to court I doubt you would have a leg to stand on I'm afraid.
Is that true though? The loan was taken out against the V5... doesn't the V5 prove who is the legal registered keeper, not the legal owner.
So doesn't that mean that the loan company secured the right to be the registered keeper?
I personally dont trust a word they say, as I've had dealings in the past with ropey companies similar to these, and I've always stood my ground despite the "scary" tales they tell.
I understand what you're saying about taking it to court, but surely they can't take me to court as it's not me that owes them the money. Let's say if the bike had been stolen from me and I wan't insured... if they turned up asking for the bike and I couldnt give it to them, would it be me they take to court?
spikedjack, I will be contacting a solicitor very shortly, but I want to collate all the info I've got beforehand.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Conway563
Unfortunately this is becoming more and more common. Take out a loan against a V5 and thensell the car/bike.
Generally speaking like Ollie says you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court as the loan is against the bike regardless of who owns it.
See if you can find any record of having a HPI done as it looks like that may be your only chance of getting anything out of this
The most annoying thing I find is that the police wont help out. Surely this is fraud, as the seller knows it isn't a legal requirment to HPI check a vehicle, and they are willingly selling a vehicle that they don't legally own
Another example of this shit country going down the pan
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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I also found this elsewhere which seems a little hopefull (I'll check this with a solicitor)
Trading Standards said:
The Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives ‘good title’ to the innocent private purchaser of a car which later turns out to be subject to a claim by a finance company because of a previous, unpaid hire-purchase agreement. This means that the finance company is not entitled to repossess the car from you. Remember, this does not apply to cars which have been stolen, or cars that were subject to a lease or hire agreement.
Some info here
Not sure if it applies to my case, but my fingers are crossed
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Ojc
Member
Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
User status: Offline
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The log book loan could be classed as a hire purchase agreement?
These companies offer these sort of loans knowing what they are getting into and I would imagine they have gone through the Consumer Credit Act prior to offering finance to those that can't get loans/finance through the usual means, i.e. people that sell the car half way through their agreement and then fail to pay off the outstanding debt.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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Its difficult because if you obide by the law in this situation you risk losing a substantial amount of money.
The other option is to plead ignorance and just sell it.
If they are coming to 'recover the debt' (i.e. take the car away) Just torch it and say it was stolen.
[Edited on 06-10-2009 by DaveyLC]
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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This isn't a hire-purchase agreemement so I doubt it applies.
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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Any loan secured against a vehicle can be classified as hire purchase.
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ShEp
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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best thing to do is flog it on.
seriously, it's a shit load of hassle you don;t want.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
Its difficult because if you obide by the law in this situation you risk losing a substantial amount of money.
The other option is to plead ignorance and just sell it.
If they are coming to 'recover the debt' (i.e. take the car away) Just torch it and say it was stolen.
[Edited on 06-10-2009 by DaveyLC]
I've read up on this.. If I knowingly sell it on I can be chased for the money by the next buyer if they have the bike taken from them. As I did a HPI report in my name recently I think there's good chance it could come back on me.
I'd also thought about reporting it stolen.. there's 2 issues here; first I think that the insurance would pay the logbook loan company before they pay anything to me.. that's even if I am covered (bear in mind that logbook loans are claiming to be the legal owners)
I could report it stolen and tell logbook loans that I have a police report and no bike... but then I'm in possesion of stolen property, not to mention any fraud charges that could come against me.
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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Break it and sell anything that's non traceable?
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by stubs
I'd also thought about reporting it stolen.. there's 2 issues here; first I think that the insurance would pay the logbook loan company before they pay anything to me.. that's even if I am covered (bear in mind that logbook loans are claiming to be the legal owners)
FAIL
quote:
Originally posted by stubs
I could report it stolen and tell logbook loans that I have a police report and no bike... but then I'm in possesion of stolen property, not to mention any fraud charges that could come against me.
If you are fully comp the insurance is there to cover your loses so they must pay you.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Break it and sell anything that's non traceable?
Considered this also  I dont think it's worth as much in parts tbh, simply because the frame (with a v5) is normally the most valuable part of this type of bike. Probably for similar, or more illegal reasons.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
quote:
Originally posted by stubs
I'd also thought about reporting it stolen.. there's 2 issues here; first I think that the insurance would pay the logbook loan company before they pay anything to me.. that's even if I am covered (bear in mind that logbook loans are claiming to be the legal owners)
FAIL
quote:
Originally posted by stubs
I could report it stolen and tell logbook loans that I have a police report and no bike... but then I'm in possesion of stolen property, not to mention any fraud charges that could come against me.
If you are fully comp the insurance is there to cover your loses so they must pay you.
What's FAIL for?
Again, I think if the insurance was involved, they would look into the fact that the loan company are owed money and that I had recently obtained a HPI report and come to the correct conclusion 
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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Fail for checking in your own name..
Insurance company will pay out.
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stubs
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 02
Location: Bolton
User status: Offline
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Ah right yeah.. well to be honest, I didn't believe the guy that was looking to buy it off me. Was kind of in shock at the time
I'll look into the insurance thing as a last resort I think, would like to try and stay as legit as possible.. knowing my run of recent luck I'd get caught out for insurance fraud or something
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