a quick post explaining why peak BHP is not important - Corsa Sport - for Vauxhall and Opel Corsa B, Corsa C and Corsa D

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Paul_J

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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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29th Mar 08 at 17:48

quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE
So from 3500 to 5500 the standard inlet produces more power

it's producing more power, as the torque is higher at that range of rpm...

Basically these boxes seem to shift the power band up the top end, reducing mid range / low down torque, but maintaining the torque higher up the revs.

Almost the same as the difference between a 4-2-1 mani and 4-1 mani...

So it's understandable really that standard inlet is producing more power between those ranges.

Steve X16XE

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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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29th Mar 08 at 17:52

That was the genius of the vauxhall people when this engine came out. They managed to ristrict the engine's bhp without losing the lbft. So when we're freeing it back up, the bhp gains a lot and only a few lbft extra.

csweatherston

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Registered: 16th Jan 06
Location: Devon
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29th Mar 08 at 17:53

but the hp doesnt actually gain much

Steve X16XE

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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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29th Mar 08 at 17:57

From 106 bhp standard to 125 bhp

From 109 lbft to 115 lbft.

Thats for mine.

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:17

quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE
This is the link to my 125.2 graph on it's own with the torque at the bottom.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z172/Steveswc/Corsa/scan0003.jpg

Nice and flat.

Yep, same as mine now.

Whereas the std inlet gives peaky torque.

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:20

Torque comparison.

Yellow line is standard inlet, look at how much gain the inlet box gives in the lower rev range.

Warren G

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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:24

quote:
Originally posted by Vaux Lad
Whilst on the topic
I converted a few RR graphs(when i was bored at work ) into excel format(using some printouts off here, and some of my own)
So its easier to compare them.
And as you can see, the mantzel, and copy inlet are VERY similar it terms of peak power, and over the complete rev range.
It also shows why fitting dbilas tb's with std ecu/rev limit is completely POINTLESS(apart from the noise), they loose power throughout the rev range apart from the final peak.
The light blue line is my own engine now
Mantzel-From Steves graph
Dbilas inlet-From the graph Dave posted
Dbilas tb's-Warren G's graph
Std(exhaust/filter)-My engine last year

Going by peak figures, the TB'd engine is quicker, but it wont actually be, on the road

[Edited on 29-03-2008 by Vaux Lad]

its not, im sure my 1.4 would keep up with this 1.6 with the same gearbox in

tb's just CAN'T run on standard managment!!! its killing the poor engine

Warren G

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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:25

what dave is saying isnt true

its about power AND the torque

then theres weight to be considered....

why do you think diesels are so quick - torque

[Edited on 29-03-2008 by warren.g]

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:26

Exactly the reason for my "pointless" comment.

On full management, with a good map, awesome gains/results.
On std ecu/map, no benefit at all

But i know you've fitted them to run with megasquirt anyways

[Edited on 29-03-2008 by Vaux Lad]

tom_simes

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Organiser: South Wales
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Registered: 12th Jan 05
Location: Undy, Newport Drives: Skoda Octavia vRS estate
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29th Mar 08 at 18:30

Adam, do you have any graphs of cars with Lexmaul's fitted? As my understanding of them is more torque throughout the rev range, but less top end power - this true?

AndyKent

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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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29th Mar 08 at 18:45

at VTEC is a waste of time.

You get in an S2000 with a 9000rpm limit and VTEC throughout a third of that and tell me its crap

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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29th Mar 08 at 18:48

quote:
Originally posted by tom_simes
Adam, do you have any graphs of cars with Lexmaul's fitted? As my understanding of them is more torque throughout the rev range, but less top end power - this true?

I dont mate nope.

Ask about and find someone who has, and then compare it

Martin_C

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Registered: 27th Jun 03
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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29th Mar 08 at 19:04

so the moral of the story is...buy a honda?

sand-eel

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Registered: 15th Mar 07
Location: carluke/braidwood--IRNBRULAND
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29th Mar 08 at 19:04

what is the extra weight of a c20xe campared to the x16xe? about 40kg's?

dan-h

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Registered: 28th Jan 06
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29th Mar 08 at 19:20

tthe moral of the story is............
Dave A is KING

of starting arguments

Fad

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Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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29th Mar 08 at 19:27

quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
so the moral of the story is...buy a honda?

I think its more to do with listening to mindless chit chat tbh.

Steve X16XE

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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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29th Mar 08 at 22:25

quote:
Originally posted by sand-eel what is the extra weight of a c20xe campared to the x16xe? about 40kg's?

I think it's more like 60 to 80kg's. As i've said before, me and my make could lift up monsters x16xe but 3 of us couldn't pick up my mates c20xe.

Fad

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Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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29th Mar 08 at 22:50

its more like 30kg-40kg mate I've seen a guy pick up a 20xe by himself

Dave A

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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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29th Mar 08 at 22:56

did he have arms made of vtec?

Paul_J

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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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29th Mar 08 at 23:23

Something not right there...

If your 'standard inlet' is the same car in both...

at 4000 rpm...

The standard inlet makes 96 lb ft of torque and 90 bhp @ 4000 rpm(according to your graphs).

and mantzel 106 lb ft and only 84 bhp. @ 4000 rpm. (according to your graphs)

This is fucked up...

standard inlet 96 * 4000 / 5252 = 73 bhp - NOT 90 bhp like your graph says
manztel 106 * 4000 / 5252 = 82 bhp

manztel is fairly spot on according to your graph, but your graph showing power on standard inlet is completely wrong.

Let's look at 4750 rpm - According to your graphs

Standard inlet makes 105 ish bhp and 107 lb ft of torque. @ 4750 (according to your graphs)

Manztel inlet makes 95 ish bhp and 110 lb ft of torque @ 4750 (according to your graphs).

Lets do the sums again

standard inlet - 107 * 4750 / 5252 = 96 bhp -NOT 105 bhp like your graph says
manztel - 110 * 4750 / 5252 = 100 bhp

You've seriously cocked up plotting the standard figures on your BHP graph mate or torque graph... one is completely wrong.

This blue line compared to the yellow line of the other graph is completely wrong!!!

According to the yellow line (torque) on the other graph, that blue line should be well under the manztel figures throughout most of the rev range.

[Edited on 29-03-2008 by Paul_J]

Steve X16XE

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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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30th Mar 08 at 00:26

Vaux Lad, who's standard inlet graph did you use? It just looks wrong. Here's mine....

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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30th Mar 08 at 10:01

Cheers for pointing that out Paul, aye i copied the figures into the wrong column on the speadsheet

Will sort in when i get a min.

broster

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30th Mar 08 at 14:53

be interesting to compare the graphs to a lexmaul inlet, one in my garage somnewhere........

here it is

and the cams were actually 256deg i think not 264

[Edited on 30-03-2008 by broster]

Warren G

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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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30th Mar 08 at 15:29

quote:
Originally posted by Vaux Lad
Exactly the reason for my "pointless" comment.

On full management, with a good map, awesome gains/results.
On std ecu/map, no benefit at all

But i know you've fitted them to run with megasquirt anyways

[Edited on 29-03-2008 by Vaux Lad]

exactly, if it ever works!!!!

Vaux Lad

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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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30th Mar 08 at 18:31

quote:
Originally posted by broster
be interesting to compare the graphs to a lexmaul inlet, one in my garage somnewhere........

here it is

and the cams were actually 256deg i think not 264

[Edited on 30-03-2008 by broster]

Do you have any bigger size pics of that graph?
Is that before and after a remap?

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