--Dave--
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
Steve, you are generalising.
People are entitled to have children as and when they want, whether you, or anyone else disagrees.
of course they are. that's not what we're debating about here though is it.
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Robin
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Steve is. its up to them if they have kids or not, even if they 'can't afford it'
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--Dave--
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not sure to be honest. I still think our generation and the generation below would fcuk like rabbits. It's all downhill from here I think.
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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
Steve, you are generalising.
People are entitled to have children as and when they want, whether you, or anyone else disagrees.
entitled yes, im not arguing the entitlement, i am arguing the morality of it. It is morally and socially bad to bring a child up if you cannot afford it.
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--Dave--
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The point I think everyone is trying to make is that kids born into families who essentially scrounge of the state (for whatever reason) is a bad thing. We pay for these families to sit at home on their arses all day and turn themselves into vegetables with no jobs. Their kids follow the same pattern and end up like them.
Saying you can't afford childminders isn't a good enough excuse, if you're independent enough and clever enough you can get work. Be it part-time or whatever. Get your mum and dad to look after the sprog for a day, then a day with the in laws. Get your hubby to do compressed hours so he's home one day a week to be with the child. All suggestions off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure there are loads more things parents can do in order to get work.
It's all just too easy to give up and stay at home and claim benefits.
Apologies for the poor grammar and lack of punctuation, had to get it all of my chest and typing it out quite fast 
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Dean_W
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quote:
Originally posted by --Dave--
Apologies for the poor grammar and lack of punctuation, had to get it all of my chest and typing it out quite fast
I don't think you did too bad Dave.
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Steve
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i think anyone that is aged 14 who gets pregnant should be made to have an abortion or if they give birth has to be put into care
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Dean_W
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A bit harsh Steve.
Maybe withdrawl of benifits?
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Robin
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quote:
Originally posted by --Dave--
1) if you're independent enough and clever enough you can get work.
2) Be it part-time or whatever.
3) Get your mum and dad to look after the sprog for a day, then a day with the in laws.
4)Get your hubby to do compressed hours so he's home one day a week to be with the child.
1) who looks after the kid when you are at work?
2) same as 1
3) what if the parents are at work? 
4) how does that work for single mums?
all I'm saying, is it's unfair to pigeon hole everyone.
the girl i know, who was 17 when she had the baby, and is now 20, doesnt live near her parents, the father of the child fucked off out of the country, and she was left to fend for herself, paying the bills on the house, and looking after a kid 24/7. she HAD to claim benifits, or she would have been homeless.
she cant work til her son is at school, because there is no-one to look after the kid. she cant leave it with her parents, they live in yorkshire, her mates are all too immature to look after a kid, so the only thing she can do, is look after it herself.
her intention is to go to college and train as a teacher while her son is at school, so she can look after him during the holidays, and not have to worry about childcare.
i SERIOUSLY think you lot should stop and think about the people who have to do this, before jumping on the bandwagon and slagging them off.
its harder than you all appear to think.
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Steve
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that would just make the the babys upbringing even worse as they would have no money then
thats not the answer
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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
quote:
Originally posted by --Dave--
1) if you're independent enough and clever enough you can get work.
2) Be it part-time or whatever.
3) Get your mum and dad to look after the sprog for a day, then a day with the in laws.
4)Get your hubby to do compressed hours so he's home one day a week to be with the child.
1) who looks after the kid when you are at work?
2) same as 1
3) what if the parents are at work?
4) how does that work for single mums?
all I'm saying, is it's unfair to pigeon hole everyone.
the girl i know, who was 17 when she had the baby, and is now 20, doesnt live near her parents, the father of the child fucked off out of the country, and she was left to fend for herself, paying the bills on the house, and looking after a kid 24/7. she HAD to claim benifits, or she would have been homeless.
she cant work til her son is at school, because there is no-one to look after the kid. she cant leave it with her parents, they live in yorkshire, her mates are all too immature to look after a kid, so the only thing she can do, is look after it herself.
her intention is to go to college and train as a teacher while her son is at school, so she can look after him during the holidays, and not have to worry about childcare.
i SERIOUSLY think you lot should stop and think about the people who have to do this, before jumping on the bandwagon and slagging them off.
its harder than you all appear to think.
why did she shack up with a two bit punk that fucked off before making proper plans knowing she was in a stable relationship then?
she must have shit for brains
[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Steve]
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Dean_W
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
that would just make the the babys upbringing even worse as they would have no money then
thats not the answer
Would think twice about having it though.
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Steve
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i dunno some of them arent very intelligent
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Robin
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she WAS in a stable relationship. she got pregnant by accident, and the bloke left because he couldnt grow balls fast enough.
like i said, not always as simple as people would like to make out.
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Andrew
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Some of these young Mum's and parents know no better, some of them if they knew better would still choose to be in that situation as it's easier that getting off their bum and doing something all day.
I personally blame the government for giving them too much in terms of money, free rent and money off bills. A lot of these youngsters as already stated are a lot younger than myself will then put that money to the wrong things such as cigarettes and alcohol. If the government gave them food vouchers i feel a lot of them would decide on getting up in the morning and going to work.
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Steve
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could she not get rid? or is she against that?
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Robin
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Steve, its called murder if you kill a newborn child.
he left after it was born, when he couldnt handle the responsibility.
its not her fault....
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Steve
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iv amended my sig accordingly 
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Dean_W
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
I personally blame the government for giving them too much in terms of money, free rent and money off bills.
Good point Andrew.
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Robin
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Some of these young Mum's and parents know no better, some of them if they knew better would still choose to be in that situation as it's easier that getting off their bum and doing something all day.
I personally blame the government for giving them too much in terms of money, free rent and money off bills. A lot of these youngsters as already stated are a lot younger than myself will then put that money to the wrong things such as cigarettes and alcohol. If the government gave them food vouchers i feel a lot of them would decide on getting up in the morning and going to work.
another generalisation.
do you know how little most single parents get? and how crap the accomodation provided is?
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Kerry
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Location: Norwich
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single parents can get working familys tax credit and help with child care and housing and council tax benefit
job centre offers new deal for lone parents schemes
there is help out there if you can be bothered to look
i of all people being a single parent for 9 years should know that. i now earn more than alot of people do full time and i only work school hours
havnt read all the thread so apologies if this has already been said
[Edited on 11-10-2006 by Kerry]
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Robin
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they dont get FREE rent anyway.
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Steve
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they shouldnt get anything, they should pay there own way like the rest of us, my parents managed? they arent special
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Dean_W
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quote:
Originally posted by Kerry
there is help out there if you can be bothered to look
I think this sums up the whole thread TBH.
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Kerry
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
they dont get FREE rent anyway.
correct
councils have a max they pay and most people still have to contribute to thier rent
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