Mike GSi
Member
Registered: 3rd Jan 07
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk Drives:Astra VXR
User status: Offline
|
pointless excercise imo, yankee badgers 
|
Matt H
Member
Registered: 11th Sep 01
Location: South Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
It would take off, were not having a 20 page thread again 
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
|
We hope.
|
drax
Member
Registered: 5th Feb 05
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent
User status: Offline
|
I just want to at all the people who said it wouldnt... again they explained it exactly as I did in the thread.  Im pleased by that
[Edited on 02-02-2008 by drax]
|
Matt H
Member
Registered: 11th Sep 01
Location: South Yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
Im about to close it
Cant sleep knowing people will be replying, it'll annoy me too much
|
Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Jules S
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they didnt have to fuck around doing this its obvious it will take off
Sorry to say it Steve (and i've always known it would take off)
But apparently they prove otherwise 
The myth is all in the wording btw 
the wording doesnt make any difference
Many many moons ago when this question first came about...the myth was if a plane was on a conveyor belt and the conveyor belt matched the speed of the plane (read wheels) would it take off?
The question has now been spun off in a multitude of different directions, mainly due to people ignoring the original text. The plan will take off because its propultion system has no relationship to its suroundings, only the air it propels itself by....if the conveyor belt could propel the air backwards at the propellors/jets the plane might not take off.
But thats not the question or answer here is it?
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
i think any other wording of the question like "if the air moves backwards at the same speed" is just people trying to dig themselves out of a hole when they realise they are wrong.
its obvious what the question is meant to mean
|
Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
|
Thanks for that drax... just worked exactly how I remember debating that it'd work in that 200 page thread
However... I made the mistake when I opened the link and my dad said 'whats that'
to say 'Well it was debated for ages on CS about this plane on a conveyor belt' - explained it to him and he was like 'nah won't take off' ... I said 'yeh it will' and explained how...
But he just wasn't listening and thinking in his head the forces would match and hold the plane steady. Treating me like an idiot and saying "Paul, the plane takes off when air goes over the wings, not the power from the engine... they'll be no air going over the wings as it won't be moving' 
But I kept saying it's MATCHED SPEED. and the speed on the wheels = the force which is less than the engine thrust. Thus plane will move forward, and take off given a long enough conveyor belt.
Anyway we argued for a good 30 mins and then he said 'lets just watch the fucking programme'
So we sat there and watched it.
The model plane he started saying 'Well, the propeller is putting air over the wings' 'model plane is too light doesn't count' lol
Then on the real plane 'Oh well that plane is still light' - 'Bet it wouldn't work with a jumbo'
I tried explaining again HOW it was working and he just ignorant and stubbon in his thinking.
|
Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
|
End of the day - the way to solve it is not thinking of it as 'speeds' but think of the actual forces as vectors working on the plane.
Where is the force coming from acting against the plane? the conveyor going backwards, which is only on the wheels which free wheel, thus the force backwards is SOLELY the drag / friction between the wheels... and the force moving forwards is the whole engine power.
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
iv never had the argument with someone in real life, i think had i have i would have ended up punching them
i think it boils down to how people think differently. some people will just never get it
|
Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
|
Wont take off.
|
Gavin
Premium Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: West Midlands
User status: Offline
|
Had to be done
pew pew pew pewwwww
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by scottyp1989
quote:
Originally posted by nova_gteuk
And kari Byron would have it all shapes
 agree
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
fuck me how fat does Adam look in that video, Is it an old one?
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
why would anyone think it would take off
the wheels and the prop have NO effect on lift at all
if there is no air going over those wings that plane wont lift a millimeter
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
stfu you fool, i hope to god you're on a wind up
[Edited on 02-02-2008 by Steve]
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
im not on a wind up at all
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
lies
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
put it this way a plane needs lift to get in the air, the lift comes from the wind going over the wings
Put the plane on a convayor belt at the same speed and you effecivly have a plane on a tread mill like they used
no think of some one on a tread mill, they run at the same speed as the belt, and doest their hair get messed up? NO cause theres no air going over them 
How the fuck would it take off with no air moving over it?
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
oh god i really dont think you're on a wind up
think about it the force driving the person on the belt is through the legs, the force driving the plane is from the prop or jet against the air, the moving belt has no effect over the air, and the wheels will just freewheel underneath, and the plane will move forward
[Edited on 02-02-2008 by Steve]
|
Nath
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
User status: Offline
|
 ffs
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
How the fuck does it take off with no air going over/under the wings
If it was on a convayor belt in a wind tunnel with air blowing over it fast enough it would lift
in the mythbusters video the plane is clearly moving forward on the convayor belt, the pick up wasnt moving away fast enough
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
yeah the plane will move forawrd on the conveyor belt hence gaining lift, the opposite motion of the belt on the wheels wont have much effect on the planemoving forward
|
mattk
Member
Registered: 27th Feb 06
Location: St. Helens
User status: Offline
|
wont move if their going the same speed as they said they were going to be
much like standing on a treadmill on roller skates, you wouldnt move, and more to my point, no air would hit you
[Edited on 02-02-2008 by mattk]
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
yeah it will, think about standing on the treadmill on rollerskates yeah, with someone not on the treadmill behind you stopping you coming backwards, they can still push you forwards cant they, not matter what speed the treadmill speeds up to, the wheels on the skates will just freewheel faster
the person pushing is the same as thrust from a jet or prop
[Edited on 02-02-2008 by Steve]
|
