Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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Dan.... major difference being is that i was crossing a dual carriageway..... she was crossing a single carriageway.
On a dual you can exit the roundabout in lane 1 or 2 regardless when going straight over
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Dan Lewis
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 05
Location: Leicestershire
User status: Offline
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any markings on the floor from the duel carriage way, as if you are going to the first exit, offically you should stay in the left hand lane. which you did but the circumstance made you change lane and made the other driver think you are going right. so i dont know really just some bad circumstances
[Edited on 15-01-2008 by Dan Lewis]
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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I'd say it was the pigeon that was flying past. Blame the flying rat?
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Ally
Member
Registered: 2nd Jul 03
Location: Pontypool Drives: a Skoda
User status: Offline
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Stupid driver = extreemee stress
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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Other party's fault.
In the IAM I was taught to never pull out onto a 2 lane rounabout infront of a driver, regardless what lane they are in. Wait until its clear to do so.
Infact, it looks like the other drive has done two things wrong. Pulling out infront of you and then "changing their mind" as to which exit to take.
Quick question, coming from where the other party came from, are you allowed to use the inside lane to use the first AND second exit of the roundabout?
But still, you are allowed to take the exit that you did in the second lane, I often approach a roundabout (assuming its safe to do so) in the outside lane, "hug" the inside of the roundabout and then exit into the second lane of the dual carrage way staright across from where I entered. Nothing illegal about that.
Regardless of if she was allowed to take the second exit in the inside lane of the roundabout, she is in the wrong twice IMO. Checking her mirrors and slowing down slightly would have avioded an accident all together.
[Edited on 15-01-2008 by pow]
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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Had an email from my insurer today
The other parties insurer have responded to mine and they have instantly tried to come back with a 50/50 offer on liability.
My insurer have said that this is very unusual and shows weakness in their case if they are to make that kind of offer at such an early stage in a claim.
He has instantly refused it because they havent even sent him the statement from their driver regarding the incident which is why he thinks they have no evidence in the case.
Should be an interesting one this. At worst ill have no NCD and an excess halved from £800 to £400.
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tom_simes
Show Staff
Organiser: South Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 12th Jan 05
Location: Undy, Newport Drives: Skoda Octavia vRS estate
User status: Offline
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Thats a good start Richie, sounds like it could improve further as well 
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sand-eel
Member
Registered: 15th Mar 07
Location: carluke/braidwood--IRNBRULAND
User status: Offline
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defo the other drivers fault, some bloody tool tried that to me aswell but i managed to brake in time.
[Edited on 21-01-2008 by sand-eel]
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Tommy L
Member
Registered: 21st Aug 06
Location: Northampton Drives: Audi wagon
User status: Offline
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looks like things are moving quickly
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adam.d
Member
Registered: 7th Nov 07
Location: hartlepool Drives: corsa LET
User status: Offline
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My dad has his own buisness in accident assistance, do you have any injurys, ie whiplash? I can ask him to have a look at your pic and give you a defo answer and he might be able to sort a claim out for you, u2u me if your interested.
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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Adam,
Many thanks for the offer matey. I suffered an accident back in June 2007 where some kid went into the back of me at 40mph whilst I was stationary in traffic.... which resulted in me making an injury claim
It was alot of hassle and the medical really got to me for some reason and didnt particularly want to go through it again.
When the accident happened I reported to the police that I wasnt injured and the girl confirmed to them she wasnt either, but a week or two after the accident my neck and sides began killing and still hurt until now.
Id prefer not to go through the hassle of it all again though.
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adam.d
Member
Registered: 7th Nov 07
Location: hartlepool Drives: corsa LET
User status: Offline
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No probs mate, the offer is there if you want to think about it. He does all the paperwork for you, obviously the medical is the only thing he can't do for you. Your car would go to a Vaux garage for repair and he would give you a hire car so you wern't stuck. He's done loads of claims for my mates / family and they would all use him again. Like I say, have a think.
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corsaaa_16v
Member
Registered: 8th Feb 06
User status: Offline
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i work as a claims handling agent mate. id say the chances of you getting a 100% decision in your favour are extremely slim unless you have witnesses. i understand what your saying about the damage areas but in reality, what is to stop her saying she came off at the same junction you were planning on doing and you just cut into her lane??
did you get any pictures of the accident scene, ie where both cars ended up, etc as that would benefit your case?
id say youd be lucky to get anything over a 50/50 split liability decision but from what your saying above, im guessing the girl has rang her insurers and said she doesnt know whos fault it was so they have gone for the quick settlement.
the only way you will get a better decision than 50/50 is proof that your story is right and she is lying, as without witnesses, its there word against yours. i would advise taking pics at the scene of the accident, road signs showing if she is in the left lane, it means she must exit the roundabout, etc and then hope the engineer pipes up that the damage couldnt have been caused by her allegations.
hope that helps mate, just advising you of similar cases ive dealt with in the past
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Arctic_Monkey
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 06
Location: East Dunbartonshire - Glasgow
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by corsaaa_16v
i work as a claims handling agent mate. id say the chances of you getting a 100% decision in your favour are extremely slim unless you have witnesses. i understand what your saying about the damage areas but in reality, what is to stop her saying she came off at the same junction you were planning on doing and you just cut into her lane??
did you get any pictures of the accident scene, ie where both cars ended up, etc as that would benefit your case?
id say youd be lucky to get anything over a 50/50 split liability decision but from what your saying above, im guessing the girl has rang her insurers and said she doesnt know whos fault it was so they have gone for the quick settlement.
the only way you will get a better decision than 50/50 is proof that your story is right and she is lying, as without witnesses, its there word against yours. i would advise taking pics at the scene of the accident, road signs showing if she is in the left lane, it means she must exit the roundabout, etc and then hope the engineer pipes up that the damage couldnt have been caused by her allegations.
hope that helps mate, just advising you of similar cases ive dealt with in the past
Spot on, accident on a r/a/b, no witnesses = 50/50 more often than not
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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I understand that but all I can do is stand my ground.
I called the police ect as per procedure but ppl keep saying that you should have insisted they turn up ect but police have bigger issues on their hands and I'm not going to make up some excuse to get a copper to the scene.
Did not get any pictures however I did report all our positions after the crash to the police on the phone which was confirmed by the other driver. We both moved from where the crash happened within 10/20 seconds as someone else could have easily smashed into us.
However no one that was near had the decency to pull over.
They have a diagram of how the roundabout works and on the next response ill be down there with a video camera and a still camera showing how the roundabout works.
Nothing more I can do really though is there.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Two incidents - first one of her pulling on didn't result in a crash - forget about it.
Second one read Highway Code 187 p2. If you leave a roundabout you need to give room to traffic crossing in front of you, ie. those leaving after you are, ie. this woman.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338
If you failed to give her room then this is bad.
If you want to win, you need to be clear that she entered your lane a sufficient distance away from the exit so that 187 doesn't apply. You also need to read her statement and see if she has in any way indicated that she didn't see you. It is reasonable that she should have seen a vehicle to whom she was close to for that length of time.
For the record, I won one in similar circumstances. I see we have a lot of people either giving bad advice or saying it'll go 50/50, neither of which I would necessarily agree with.
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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I see where your coming from on that Ian and fully appreciate the advice given.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Richie
On a dual you can exit the roundabout in lane 1 or 2 regardless when going straight over
Incorrect - if someone is left lane and stays on, you can't hit them when you leave.
Just looking at your pics though, damage is side of your vehicle rather than front, which would of course indicate that you are ahead, which is better than hitting the side of her. I personally still think that you are still going to have problems with you leaving and her staying on.
[Edited on 22-01-2008 by Ian]
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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I know what you mean mate.
I was definatly infront of her and have made them aware at that. She was so close to actually taking the exit herself it was unreal to think she would have turned like she did.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by corsaaa_16v
road signs showing if she is in the left lane, it means she must exit the roundabout
Which unless there are markings she won't be obligated to do so as she only entered one junction previously - section 186 on the same page I just linked.
Just read the thread again and OMG at all the people saying pink line is in the wrong. This situation is potentially quite good for pink line and CERTAINLY not a clear cut case of saying who is in the right like that.
I definitely think you have a good case to argue but it will focus on her awareness, whether she says anything bad or admits it based on not knowing or whether it can be argued that it would be easier for her to have put measures in place to avoid the accident than you doing the same.
To anyone who said pink line without really thinking about it - don't assume. If you don't know the full implications of everything, learn them. Its too late after you've crashed and need to fight an obtuse point and hope the other party trips themselves up.
[Edited on 22-01-2008 by Ian]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Richie
She was so close to actually taking the exit herself it was unreal to think she would have turned like she did.
You would need need something substantial to argue that she had thought about leaving before changing her mind and hitting you - ie. indication left mostly but also road positioning if it was very very late indeed like dangerously so.
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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I think her indicating right dangerously late as we were turning off is quite bad enough? Was almost split second stuff
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Yeah but you can't assume she was leaving, ever. Especially that she wouldn't be required to indicate left if she wasn't leaving. She wasn't, therefore it is reasonable to assume that she was staying on.
Perhaps she should have notified you earlier but the onus is on you to consider her movements, not her to warn people.
She needs to have written somewhere that she nearly left but didn't. Even something about being undecided where she was going would do the trick.
One thing that has just occurred to me as well - if she entered where she did and intended to leave second exit then she shouldn't have needed to indicate, ever. HC stays you don't normally need to indicate on approach, and you indicate left after you pass the exit before the one you want.
Signal right means you are changing path, therefore in to other paths, therefore reckless. Perhaps focus on this point. If she was doing it right and in accordance with her understanding of HC (you can be sarcastic  ) then she would not have signalled right at any point.
The signalling right does kind of indicate that she has some errors to correct in her execution of that manoeuvre that she knew about. Hence my point about what she could have done to avoid crashing. Not try and fix her mistake too late and hit you.
I think we just won that.
[Edited on 22-01-2008 by Ian]
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Richie
Member
Registered: 3rd Dec 02
Location: Newport, Wales
User status: Offline
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Ian = wrong job 
Mate many thanks for the advice and ill take onboard as much of it as possible.
\o/
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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Ian, you've hit the nail on the head 
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