SetH
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Registered: 15th Jul 01
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quote:
it was around that sort of time when people starting thinking they gangsters/important people
problem is that these days everyone acts like they in a movie 
Well there you go then, this generation has not great war, there is not great purpose or anything to strive for. Thus for some people the most influential and exciting things in their lives are these films.
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Laney
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Registered: 6th May 03
Location: Leeds
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
Well the situation in IRAN is concerning, why are they refining uranium? some people say that if they were developping nuclear weapons then they would be more kosha about it, i say that they are blatant in doing it because this in itself is a good subdifuge, people wouldnt expect them to do it with the world watching.
What about the Falklands war? the French sold exocet anti ship missles to the argentinians. some people say thatcher phoned up mitterand asking for the codes to disable them or she would use nuclear weapons on buenos aires, and she was dark enough to do it IMO. Any use or sniff of nukes and Russia gets involved, only takes a few key incidents to instigate a world war!
Nuclear war is cheating 
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
quote:
it was around that sort of time when people starting thinking they gangsters/important people
problem is that these days everyone acts like they in a movie
Well there you go then, this generation has not great war, there is not great purpose or anything to strive for. Thus for some people the most influential and exciting things in their lives are these films.
and music of course
people love to pretend they a famous hip-hop star
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Brett
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Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
quote:
it was around that sort of time when people starting thinking they gangsters/important people
problem is that these days everyone acts like they in a movie
Well there you go then, this generation has not great war, there is not great purpose or anything to strive for. Thus for some people the most influential and exciting things in their lives are these films.
I agree with your point, Tyler. But saying the answer to the countries problems is a world war is stupid.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Tyler Durden?
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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there ain't an answer, we not gonna go back in time, is the way its worked out
there's no going back now, end of world = 2012
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Brett
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Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Tyler Durden?
yes, seth keeps slipping in tyler durden quotes ...and after saying people think they're in a movie 
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Laney
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Registered: 6th May 03
Location: Leeds
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I was watching something on BBC3 last night that said that since national service stopped (1960) there has been a steady increase in youth crime.
National Service would improve this country no end IMO.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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quote:
Originally posted by Laney
I was watching something on BBC3 last night that said that since national service stopped (1960) there has been a steady increase in youth crime.
National Service would improve this country no end IMO.
Can you imagine the Muslims approving of this?
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SetH
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Registered: 15th Jul 01
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quote:
Originally posted by loafofbrett
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Tyler Durden?
yes, seth keeps slipping in tyler durden quotes ...and after saying people think they're in a movie
uhm i saw fightclub once, that was back in 2000 iirc and the only thing i remember from it was meatloafs tits and brad pit fistiing someone wearing marigolds. I assure you i have not quoted any films here, views i have had since i was at school tbh.
Im not trying to say we should all go to war as a solution, im just saying that a world wide conflict as devastating as it would be could in the long term benefit the human race.
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Ojc
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SetH, the exocet missiles that were sold to the Argies by the French were never fitted with the software to guide them to targets, so they were pretty much useless (much like the German V2 which wasn't a fully guided missile)
French technicians were already on Argentinean soil when war broke out, and after complaints to Nato HQ's made by the UK and the USA, the experts left Argentina for Uruguay, and didn't install the software and we are god damm lucky we didn't because if they had been fully guided missiles we would have had our carriers and destroyers sunk and we probably wouldn't have even made it to the Falkland beaches.
Treacherous French at there best.
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Brett
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Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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For you Seth..
quote:
Tyler Durden
Advertisements have us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
We are the middle children of history, with no purpose or place.
We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives.
We were raised by television to believe that we'd be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars -- but we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed-off.
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SetH
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I would have loved the chance to do national service, not saying it would have been easy but it would set you up with skills and discipline for life IMO, would be a worthwhile and postive thing for any young person.
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CorsAsh
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Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
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National Service would be a great option, increase respect, cut crime, and also childhood obesity.
Watching that Bad Lad's Army and seeing the hard cases breaking down and crying just shows how effective it could be.
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SetH
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Registered: 15th Jul 01
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quote:
Originally posted by loafofbrett
For you Seth..
quote:
Tyler Durden
Advertisements have us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
We are the middle children of history, with no purpose or place.
We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives.
We were raised by television to believe that we'd be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars -- but we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed-off.
Still dont see what i have quoted??? apart from the we have no great war, but thats hardly a quote manufactured from fight club? 
However reading that, even though its from a movie script i do in fact agree with it.
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SetH
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Ojc, so the thatcher call to mitterand is after all just a consipracy theory then?
yes the french treachorous bastads. but we were quite ruthless destroying the general belgrano outside of the combat exclusion zone, apparantly her destroyer escort legged it. If they stayed to do a SAR Then the argentine causualties would not have been so great. perhaps they we scared the ruthless english were going to sink them as well
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
Ojc, so the thatcher call to mitterand is after all just a consipracy theory then?
yes the french treachorous bastads. but we were quite ruthless destroying the general belgrano outside of the combat exclusion zone, apparantly her destroyer escort legged it. If they stayed to do a SAR Then the argentine causualties would not have been so great. perhaps they we scared the ruthless english were going to sink them as well
I have read somewhere that Thatcher did threaten someone with a nuclear strike if they did'nt comply, not sure who and with what it regarded.
The sinking of the Belgrano is actually seen as a warcrime, but hey who cares, they started it 
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CorsAsh
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Didn't she threaten the miners with nuclear action, then decided that was a soft option and sent in Scargill instead?
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SetH
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Ojc
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1982. Picture the scene. NATO one side of the fence, led predominantly by the US, with Britain and France squabbling over the right to be considered second most powerful nation in NATO. Warsaw Pact the other side of the fence, headed up by the USSR, and with, erm, lots of USSR puppets all saying 'Yes Leonid!' whenever Brezhnev barks an order.
It's like a standoff in a school playground, but this time the playground is Germany, and the weapons are nuclear. An uneasy peace has existed for decades, with neither side backing down, and both sides poised. Focused. Ready.
The world watches...
And then all of a sudden, some godforsaken little islands in the South Atlantic, which happen to be governed by Britain, get invaded by Argentina.
The world glances down the globe, raises an eyebrow, chuckles in amusement at the Argentineans and British, and looks back at the stern faces glowering at each other across the Iron Curtain. This is where the REAL stand off is, not down there on some bloody horrible little islands that nobody's ever heard of.
But in Britain, things are stirring. Paras and Marines on leave are recalled. 48 hours notice to move boys; the Argentineans have invaded the Falklands. "What the hell do they want with Scottish Islands?" asks one bemused Para, showing that even he doesn't know where the Falklands are. Royal Naval vessels are made ready, troops are mobilised, war stocks broken out, aircraft prepared, a logistics air bridge is set up to Ascension Island, diplomatic talks start, collapse, start again, and collapse again. In days a task force is ready; it sails. More diplomacy, it fails again, the task force passes Ascension Island, and nobody really believes it'll go to a shooting war. Surely the Argies'll see sense and ****** off home...?
Twenty three days after the Argentineans take the Falklands, Royal Marines re-take Grytvyken on South Georgia, crippling an Argentinean submarine in the harbour.
Bloody hell. It IS a shooting war...!
Five days later; Belgrano is sunk by HMS Conqueror, and a single RAF Vulcan drops a stick of bombs across Port Stanley's runway. It's a statement of intent, a message to Leopoldo Galtieri. Look at us Leo, we can fly one of these, all the way down here, drop bombs, and fly it home again. Still want to play, or have you had enough yet?
He still wants to play. Three days after that, the Argentineans gain some revenge. HMS Sheffield is hit by an Exocet(one of the most advanced anti-ship missiles at the time); she sinks under tow three days later. Time for another Vulcan. And another one. Argentinean air defences are held back to cover the mainland; Galtieri's play for the Falklands is a gamble, a play on public support. If a British bomber drops one bomb on the mainland, that support goes...
So the air cover over the islands is reduced. But still the Argentines have a potent anti-invasion force... until the SAS and SBS visit Pebble Island. The fleet moves in closer... into San Carlos Water... and British troops land. Two days later, Goose Green is taken. The British press is full of front page photographs of smiling islanders, grubby faced Paras, and Union Jacks.
But it's at a price; Ardent, Antelope, Coventry. All sunk while protecting the landings from sustained and highly determined low level Argentian attacks. So basically they were sitting targets protecting the landing ships, yes they were lost but they did there job and allowed the landings to happen. It may have only been iron bombs that sunk them, but as the saying goes you through enough shit at the wall and same will stick. They were also practically sitting ducks in the shallow waters, so not surprising there were losses, but look how many aircraft loss's there were for Argentina in these attacks. They could not use the sea darts in this position because they were being used as close in defence for the fleet and as the enemy aircraft appeared over the bay, there was not enough time to get missile locks on them before they disappeared. The sea dart did however shoot a number of aircraft down, including two probable aircraft (sky hawks-either collided or shot down, probably shot down) at its extreme range and a helicopter (puma) confirmed at its max range. I do not see by saying the us had ageis and russians had Rif-M makes it obsolete- what did every other navy have at this time?
Then a big blow. Atlantic Conveyor goes down, with all but one of her heavy lift helicopters. The troops on the far side of East Falkland will have to walk to Stanley.
British troops are the most highly trained, highly motivated, and professional soldiers in the world. 'You've got to walk it lads'. Okay, let's get on with it then. I met an America marine a few years ago who had served in the gulf and we were talking about the Royal marines. He said that compared to Royal marines most other solders are pussies (including US marines- pussie is his words not mine as any marine from any country could kick my ass) and that the Royal Marines could kill a guy just using his thumb. - Obviously not true but you can see his meaning.
Mountain firefights, hand to hand, highly experienced Paras and Marines versus terrified teenage conscripts. On 14th June, the message comes through - 'there are white flags flying over Port Stanley'.
Job done.
So how did the British forces do it?
Determination
Leadership
Logistical excellence
Sure the Harrier helped. Sure the loss of Atlantic Conveyor was a huge blow. AIM9L helped. Argentina only having a slack handful of Exocets helped.
But you have to remember, that in 1982, the global focus was NATO vs Warsaw Pact. Us against Them. Two huge standing armies, standing ready to bludgeon each other to pieces, with little or no manouverist mentality...
...yet somehow, from a standing start, Britain mobilised itself to recapture the first island in 23 days, and complete the whole task in ten weeks.
Personally, I doubt any other nation, excepting the United States, could have done it, not in 1982, not with the way the world was then. The soviets may have been able to scrape a force together, but would they have had the political will. The French???? Maybe they had some useful ships.
2 CV
1 Helicopter cruiser
2 LSD
7 LST
1 CG
5 DDG
Large number of frigates
But would have had to use more civilian transports and again would they have had the political will?
Could the Britain do it now? I'm not so sure, when the new carriers are on line of course. Could any other navy in the world (excluding the US) do it today or in the next 10 years, probably only the French?
The only britsih nuclear weapons on the ships were nuclear depth charges( it was routine for British naval surface ships to carry nuclear weapons during the 1980s) They were on the task force when it sailed south but never entered the territorial waters of the Falkland Islands or any South American country., the decision was taken to transfer them to other ships heading back home as they neared to conflict zone.
This is a quote from Reagan when his Tapes of the air-ro-ground conversation were realesed when discussing the British build up.
"Al, do you think the British nuclear sub down there might let the Argies have a big one?"
Thatcher had repeatedly and publicly warned Buenos Aires that "the invasion will not stand." She vowed to use "all means" at her disposal "to evict the Argentine invaders." So who knows if it might have gone nuclear?
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3CorsaMeal
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i had a turd once, flushed toilet, came back an 1hr or so later and it was floating around like a drowned water vole.
so i piled on lots of bog roll and sunk it with the bog brush
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Ry_B
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Registered: 1st Dec 05
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It's true though, and it seems all countries apart from our own know it!
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Edd
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Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
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my mums cousin died in the falklands
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Edd
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Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
Ojc, so the thatcher call to mitterand is after all just a consipracy theory then?
yes the french treachorous bastads. but we were quite ruthless destroying the general belgrano outside of the combat exclusion zone, apparantly her destroyer escort legged it. If they stayed to do a SAR Then the argentine causualties would not have been so great. perhaps they we scared the ruthless BRITISH were going to sink them as well
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Laney
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Registered: 6th May 03
Location: Leeds
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
quote:
Originally posted by Laney
I was watching something on BBC3 last night that said that since national service stopped (1960) there has been a steady increase in youth crime.
National Service would improve this country no end IMO.
Can you imagine the Muslims approving of this?
Why wouldn't they?
Ps, I think it was me that started the Durden quotes 
[Edited on 09-05-2006 by Laney]
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