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Haimsey

Premium Member

Registered: 8th May 05
Location: Nottingham Drives: Corsa B
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 03:30

downward gear changing in the following way -

double clutching (as to waht i believe it to be) -
clutch down > out of gear
clutch up
tap accelerator
clutch down > into lower gear
clutch up

AND

what ever this would be -
clutch down > out of gear
tap accelerator (clutch still depressed)
into lower gear > clutch up

just curious

help, opinions, disussion, comments, pics, other words so this can be in GC and not HZ

Marcy Marc

White Sport Progress Thread

powey

Member

Registered: 6th Nov 05
Location: Gwent, South Wales
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 06:19

there would be a difference in the amount of time taken?
Depends on gearbox i suppose

Cupra Steve

Banned

Registered: 7th Nov 06
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 08:11

Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.

Toby

Premium Member

Registered: 29th Nov 05
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:15

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.

so same as the first as they are both not in gear

sam-smith

Member

Registered: 8th Jan 07
Location: plymouth, UK
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:16

haimsey

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:22

Double declutching is as follows:

Clutch in
Into neutral
Clutch out
Plip throttle to raise speed of layshaft to match roadspeed
Clutch in
Into lower gear
Clutch out

Combine that with heel and toe braking for rapid decelerative gearchanges that keep the car balanced into a corner.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:24

Second one would just increase engine speed, and not affect the gearbox layshaft, so you're still relying on the syncros to take up the slack when you select new gear and let the clutch out.

[Edited on 16-03-2007 by CorsAsh]

chrisj_88

Member

Registered: 22nd Sep 06
Location: Dewsbury
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:28

when i switch down a gear i dont bother tapping the accelerator before putting it into a lower gear. i just:

clutch in
out of gear and into lower gear
clutch up
floor it

is this bad? just means ure flung forward and then back in your chair

FruitBooTeR

Member

Registered: 18th Jan 07
Location: Wolverhampton Drives: S15
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:34

quote:
Originally posted by chrisj_88
when i switch down a gear i dont bother tapping the accelerator before putting it into a lower gear. i just:

clutch in
out of gear and into lower gear
clutch up
floor it

is this bad? just means ure flung forward and then back in your chair

Same era lmao

[Edited on 16-03-2007 by FruitBooTeR]

Alex16v

Member

Registered: 30th Jun 06
Location: Chester Drives: Civic ep3 final edition
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:35

When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:35

It's bad for a few reasons:

If you're driving quickly (on a track of course) you're shifting all the weight to the front wheels, which means when you turn in, the back end will be light and you'll be dealing with an oversteer situation.

You're putting more strain on your engine, gearbox, clutch and suspension as they all struggle to bring the roadspeed down to match the revs. Keep doing it and eventually your syncs will give up and go home.

You're gonna look like a wally and no one will want to get a lift from you.

Go on a driver training course, it'll help.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:38

quote:
Originally posted by Alex16v
When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.

You dont need to raise revs on an upchange... some people do it on drag strips - "powershifting" - but all you're doing is raising the revs for the clutch and box to bring them back down and accelerate normally through the rev range.

Rachel H

Member

Registered: 12th Nov 03
Location: Berks
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:39

I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks

Steve X16XE

Member

Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:40

Are you asking about heal and toe down changes?

Cupra Steve

Banned

Registered: 7th Nov 06
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:42

quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks

my mate can do this in his mini?

Alex16v

Member

Registered: 30th Jun 06
Location: Chester Drives: Civic ep3 final edition
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:43

quote:
Originally posted by CorsAsh

quote:
Originally posted by Alex16v
When i change up and down its usaually just:

1st gear
clutchdown
blip throttle / move to 2nd gear
clutchup

Ane the same back down the gears. seems to make it more smooth when changing down, and just keeps my revs up when changing up. Good for the 16 vvvalvers.

You dont need to raise revs on an upchange... some people do it on drag strips - "powershifting" - but all you're doing is raising the revs for the clutch and box to bring them back down and accelerate normally through the rev range.

Thanks

I was just guessing. Iwill drive normal again now lol. If i ever get a working car again.

Cupra Steve

Banned

Registered: 7th Nov 06
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:43

quote:
Originally posted by CorsaB4ever

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve
Only difference would be the latter would just rev and not go anywhere as it would still be in neutral.

so same as the first as they are both not in gear

no as the first one states Put into lower gear

Steve X16XE

Member

Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:43

whilst brakeing.
Clutch down change gear, and the same time roll your foot that is on the brake to the accelerator, cluth up and foot down.

Sounds fantastic. When people are watching you brake and rev up and change gear at the same time, they look puzzled.

Steve X16XE

Member

Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:47

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks

my mate can do this in his mini?

All (as far as i know) manual gearbox's can do this.

When driving rev up to about 2k in 3rd. Lift off the accelerator apply preasure to the gearstick to go into 4th and it'll slip in. No grinding done.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:48

Well done, you just described heel and toe downchanging.

It's actually good for your components, bad for your fuel consumption.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:50

quote:
Originally posted by Steve X16XE

quote:
Originally posted by Cupra Steve

quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I have a question, about 6 years ago my mate was driving my Corsa SXi on the motorway and managed to shift from 4th to 5th without using the clutch, how is this possible?

Thanks

my mate can do this in his mini?

All (as far as i know) manual gearbox's can do this.

When driving rev up to about 2k in 3rd. Lift off the accelerator apply preasure to the gearstick to go into 4th and it'll slip in. No grinding done.

It's called rev matching. The old lorries you hear on films that cruch had "crash gearboxes" - basically no syncromeshes, so the driver had to match the roadspeed to the engine speed to get a smooth change or you got the crashing noise.

AuroraSport

Member

Registered: 5th Mar 05
Location: Norfolk Drives: Audi B5 S4 Avant
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:51

aye shame i cant do it with my clown feet

i just end up mashing the pedals

Steve X16XE

Member

Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:52

quote:
Originally posted by CorsAsh
Well done, you just described heel and toe downchanging.

It's actually good for your components, bad for your fuel consumption.

You haven't seen me drive

Fuel consumption is nowhere to be seen

:big head: I can say that I perfected the heel and toe in one week. Been doing it now for 2 months. Try it. When you get it right...... Everything is soooo smoooth.

CorsAsh

Member

Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:53

I do it without thinking now.

Steve X16XE

Member

Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
User status: Offline

16th Mar 07 at 11:54

quote:
Originally posted by AuroraSport
aye shame i cant do it with my clown feet i just end up mashing the pedals

What size are your feet?

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