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Jules S

Premium Member

Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:44

So come on then....i'll just throw this out there.

It seems to me that a certain tuner has taken the bull by the horns (about time) and has pretty much dispelled some myths about RR results.

A couple of questions:-

A/. It's always been my understanding that its impossible to get higher lb/ft torque than BHP without forced induction? yes or no?

B/. Which tuner RR results have been the dodgiest?

Thanks

Lil_John

Banned

Registered: 26th Apr 06
Location: I come from the land down under
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:45

dont have a clue what your talking about

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:46

Then don't reply.

Steve

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:47

a) usually yes
b) there are 100's of dodgy rr's out there in fact 90% are dodgy

Robin

Premium Member

Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:47

dodgiest results ive ever had were from northampton motorsport, my standard (88bhp) 1.4 sport made 97bhp on their rr

and as for the forst question, i thought the same, discounting nitrous, there is no way to get higher torque than bhp without FI i dont think

Rob126

Member

Registered: 18th Feb 05
Location: Mellieha, Malta Drives: Corsa D 1.4
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:47

yes u can get more torque than bhp from an engine.
e.g. Rover 3.5 v8 has 'only' 180bhp but then it has a massive amount of torque!!!

Lil_John

Banned

Registered: 26th Apr 06
Location: I come from the land down under
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:48

quote:
Originally posted by ed
Then don't reply.

shut up ya dick, that would have gave him the chance to explain it if he wanted too.

just cos im not to clued up on this side of things.

thats why i tend to ask steve or jambo!

wankrag

IvIarkgraham

Premium Member

Registered: 27th Mar 04
Location: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:48

you such a clown lil_john

my torque levels were very close only 3 in it

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:49

quote:
Originally posted by Jules S

A/. It's always been my understanding that its impossible to get higher lb/ft torque than BHP without forced induction? yes or no?

I'd imagine a 8v engine could quite easily get a higher torque figure than BHP, just from where it makes peak power.

This is a silly question as power is worked out by torque * the rpm it's at divided by 5252.

Therefore if you make a lot of torque low down the revs and this torque does not continue very far up the power band, the peak torque could be the same, but the power won't be that high.

Member

Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:49

How can you have more torque than BHP when they are two different things?

JadeM

Premium Member

Registered: 9th Feb 06
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:50

1. No...at least not that ive seen I dont think

2.Ive only been to 2 in my life but both times my reading was more or less bang on what It should have been!!

Jules S

Premium Member

Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:50

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
a) usually yes
b) there are 100's of dodgy rr's out there in fact 90% are dodgy

After this weekend I would say the percentage was higher

SetH

Member

Registered: 15th Jul 01
User status: Online

14th May 06 at 20:50

this thread is gonna be about 5 pages long

JadeM

Premium Member

Registered: 9th Feb 06
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:52

quote:
Originally posted by SetH
this thread is gonna be about 5 pages long

Full of people arguing most likely

Steve

Premium Member

Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:54

quote:
Originally posted by Jules S

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
a) usually yes
b) there are 100's of dodgy rr's out there in fact 90% are dodgy

After this weekend I would say the percentage was higher

what weekend was that?

you see they think that by calbrating there devices to give generous readings they will give the customer a good feeling, thus generating more interest in there rolling road, noones gonna wanna go back to a rolling road that gave a shite figure even if that figure was accurate and honest

Hammer

Member

Registered: 11th Feb 04
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:57

quote:
Originally posted by Jules S
A/. It's always been my understanding that its impossible to get higher lb/ft torque than BHP without forced induction? yes or no?

Most turbo diesel engines produce far more torque than bhp as standard?

Jules S

Premium Member

Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:57

Steve,

No not really. im talking about tuners selling packages based on their own RR figures

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 20:57

quote:
Originally posted by ed
How can you have more torque than BHP when they are two different things?

All BHP is - is TORQUE * RPM DIVIDED BY 5252 ...

This is how BHP is worked out / measured.

I'm sure you could find a 8v engine that makes peak power (torque runs out quick) really low down the revs and thus makes more torque than power.

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:03

quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04
i never questioned that i know why it has far more torque

all i was doing was answering the question, it is possible to produce a higher torque figure than bhp without forced induction.

and if you knew that, then you should know the answer.

It's simple maths. If the car only makes torque till say 3k rpm and tails off after quickly, then it'll quite easily make more torque than power.

Hammer

Member

Registered: 11th Feb 04
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:05

im not getting why your trying to argue here

IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET A HIGHER TORQUE READING THAN BHP WITHOUT FORCED INDUCTION

thats all im saying!

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:08

I think the problem is, everyone's got obsessed with top gear etc, talking about torque and bhp like they're completely different things - totally unrelated.

Torque is the turning power, but to get a high power figure you need that torque to extend for as far as you can on the revs (or keep increasing ideally)

"A computerized engine dynamometer accurately measures torque and rpm and then can accurately calculate horsepower."

A rolling road isn't measuring power, it's measuring the torque (turning force) of the wheels - and the rpm at which this is . then using the formula I've already spoken about calculate the power.

Thus as I've said it before, if you have a car that makes all its power low down in the revs (like a Turbo Diesel) you get a larger torque figure than a peak power figure.

The reason it has so much torque is due to the turbo, the reason it makes the torque so low down is due to being a diesel.

This is a stupid and pointless post / question.

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:11

quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04

quote:
Originally posted by Jules S
A/. It's always been my understanding that its impossible to get higher lb/ft torque than BHP without forced induction? yes or no?

Most turbo diesel engines produce far more torque than bhp as standard?

quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04
im not getting why your trying to argue here

Sxi04. You argued that most turbo diesels make more torque than bhp. But that's forced induction. So I didn't understand how your example explained anything.

I'm saying it's irrelevant whether its forced or not, it's where the torque is delivered in the revs which is how high the torque will be relative to the power figure.

[Edited on 14-05-2006 by Paul_J]

Hammer

Member

Registered: 11th Feb 04
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:14

i never argued anything, please note the question mark after the sentence, which usually signifies im asking the question rather than stating the point

Paul_J

Member

Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:16

ok sorry mis understanding

RKS

Member

Registered: 2nd Mar 04
Location: Gloucestershire UK
User status: Offline

14th May 06 at 21:19

my 1.4 8v last time it was on the rollers had 92bhp and 102lbft of torque,

it should be pushing more than that now, and will be even more when I finally get a decent exhaust manifold

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