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My JL Install **Lots of pics**
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[quote][i]Originally posted by chumbly_warner[/i] **Click on pics to enlarge ** 24/10/04 I got all my new ice for my car 2day. I got a sponcership deal from [url=www.cel-direct.com]Car Electronics Ltd. I have got a full JL-Audio install, including all JL Cabling, 300/2, 500/1, 13w6v2 and XR653CS. Also i have got 5 Kenwood 6.5' widescreen screens and a phoenix gold pro line driver. On monday i am going to start making the boot build, more pics then. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Ice%20Car%20On%20Bed.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Ice%20Car%20On%20Bed_small.jpg" alt="My New Ice[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Ice%20Stacked.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Ice%20Stacked_small.jpg" alt="My New Ice[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Kenwood%20Tvs.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Kenwood%20Tvs_small.jpg" alt="My New Ice[/img][/url] 25/10/04 We have now got in a load of MDF and Plywood for the boot and door builds. As I still havent got the front components, i am going to start on the boot build 1st. I am going to have my dad to help me build everything, as he helped me with everything else on the car. We started off by marking out the shape of the boot on to some Ply and then we cut out 2 of them 1 to go on the floor of the boot and 1 to go on the raised section. We then made a box for inbetween the two sections. We then made 2 sides and a back plate. I then thought it needed somewhere to mount a neon, so we added a shelf to the top of the back plate. At the end of the night we then tsted that the sub fitted ok. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Test%20Fit.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Test%20Fit_small.jpg[/img][/url] 26/10/04 We made a box to go in the spare wheel well as we worked out that the box we had made did not contain enougth air, but we managed to make 1 to fix and that got enought air. We then made a top plate that goes round the sub to enhance the lines of the box. We then started to fill all of the holes and just make the box smoother. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Fillered%201.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Fillered%201_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Fillered%202.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Fillered%202_small.jpg[/img][/url] 27/10/04 Well we have made the new rear quarter panels tonight, i am going to have the Amps mounted on the outside on the rear panel. So we had to cut out the arm rest shape and then attach some mdf to make a flat surface theat the Amps can be mounted to. We then filled the gaps between the wood and the original panel. We also finished off sanding the boot build and then gave it a coat of white undercoat. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Rear%20Quater%20Panels.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Rear%20Quater%20Panels_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Painted.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20Box%20Painted_small.jpg[/img][/url] 30/10/04 We started on the doors today. We wanted to get a big bulge in the bottom of the door, a place to mount the tv and also fill the pocket in the door, so we used foam fill to get us the bulge and then we used a knife and cut it to the shape we wanted. I then started to filler it to make it smooth, but i ran out of filler. So i had some plaster in the garage so i plastered the whole door, it will then take another day for it to set. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20In%20Foam.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20In%20Foam_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20In%20Foam%20Shaped.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20In%20Foam%20Shaped_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plastered.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plastered_small.jpg[/img][/url] 31/10/04 The doors havent quite dried today, but i wanted to just see what they look like on. The door does close though, so i now have to cut some of it down. I have only made 1 door, but i havent got a clue how i am going to make the other doo the same :( I mounted the amps on the rear door panels, they are going to look really good. I mounted the sub as well and the screen in the boot, we r going to mount the screen on the outside now insted of behind. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plasetered%20In%20Car%20Closed.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plasetered%20In%20Car%20Closed_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plasetered%20In%20Car%20Open.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Door%20Plasetered%20In%20Car%20Open_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Boot%20With%20Sub%20White.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Boot%20With%20Sub%20White_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/500%20In%20Rear.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/500%20In%20Rear_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/300%20In%20Rear.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/300%20In%20Rear_small.jpg[/img][/url] 04/11/04 I was going to make another door panel to match the foam filled 1, but when i cam to start making it i realised that there would be no way of making the 2 the same and i think it was a bit too big. I started on the other panel making this all out of wood, so that i could easily make the oposite side. After making all the parts for both doors and ripping the old attemp of the other door, i fixed all the bits together and then foam filled behind all of the bits of wood, so that when it gets vac formed it doesnt crush the mold. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Foamed.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Foamed_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Cut.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Cut_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Fillered.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Fillered_small.jpg[/img][/url] 09/11/04 I did a test fit of the new door cards and i think they will look really nice when they are vac formed. We also tried the screen to see how it would look in the boot, its going to look good =) We stripped the car down of all but the drivers seat, ready for when we run the cables down the car. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Test%20Fit.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wood%20Door%20Test%20Fit_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Screen%20In%20Boot.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Screen%20In%20Boot_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/All%20Panels.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/All%20Panels_small.jpg[/img][/url] 14/11/04 Me and my Dad spent the day wiring up the car. The 2 gauge cable was a pig to fit through the rubber gromit going into the engine bay! After we got that through i had to take out the TV and run all the wires to the brain down the drivers side of the car to the boot, i also wired in the tv arials. I put all the RCAs in the right place. I also extended the vauxhgall wiring loom so that it has power connectors for 5 screens, a booster box and the line driver. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wiring%20Done%20Back.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wiring%20Done%20Back_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wiring%20Done%20Front.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Wiring%20Done%20Front_small.jpg[/img][/url] 16/11/04 I have sanded all of the moulds down now. I have now mounted them on to a board of MDF, then foam filled all behind. I have now dropped the moulds off at the bloke that is going to do the vac forming for me, cant wait to get them back so i can actually hear the stereo! [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Moulds%20Mounted.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Moulds%20Mounted_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Mould%20Bottom.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Mould%20Bottom_small.jpg[/img][/url] 25/11/04 I finally got the booster box for the tvs today. I wired up another power connector and then plugged my ps2 in the car and plugged all the screens in. They looked really good quality. 1 of them had a dead pixel on it, so i have rang up Car Electronics and they are going to replaise the screen for me. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Booster.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Booster_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/5%20Screens%20Running.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/5%20Screens%20Running_small.jpg[/img][/url] 28/11/04 I have started on putting a screen in a headrest. I measured the size of the back of the screen, then cut an X in the headrest the size of the back of the screen, then folded the flaps back. I then had to cut alot of the foam and plastic out of the back of the headrest. I then got 1 of the screens mounting brackets and cut that down so it would fit in the headrest. I then fixed that inplace with no more nails. I will need to leave it to go off for 24 hours, then i can try the screen in it again. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Foam%20From%20Headrest.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Foam%20From%20Headrest_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Headret%20and%20Screen.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Headret%20and%20Screen_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20In%20Headrest.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20In%20Headrest_small.jpg[/img][/url] 29/11/04 I have left the mounting bracket to go off for 24 hours and now i have tested the screen. They fit really well. We have done both of them now we know it worked for the first 1. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Fixed%20In%20Headrest.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Fixed%20In%20Headrest_small.jpg[/img][/url] 01/12/04 I hadnt took any pictures of my components since picking them up from car electronics. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/JL%20XR653%20Out%20The%20Box.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/JL%20XR653%20Out%20The%20Box_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/JL%20XR653%20In%20The%20Box.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/JL%20XR653%20In%20The%20Box_small.jpg[/img][/url] 08/12/04 I got a new touch screen tft for my incar pc today. I plugged it staight in t the pc and played with the toch screen. It runs 1280x768 widescreen res, the quality is really good. I am going to mount the screen where the heaters are in the center of the dash. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Screen%20Media%20Player.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Screen%20Media%20Player_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Screen%20My%20Site.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Screen%20My%20Site_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Kenwood%20And%20New%20Screen.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Kenwood%20And%20New%20Screen_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/All%20The%20Screens.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/All%20The%20Screens_small.jpg[/img][/url] 09/12/04 Managed to finally get the middle of the dash out, it took ages. There are soo many bolts! After getting the middle bit of the dash out, i then cut out where the heaters where and then sanded down any bits that stuck out. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Middle%20Dash%20Cut.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Middle%20Dash%20Cut_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Cut%20Dash%20And%20TV.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Cut%20Dash%20And%20TV_small.jpg[/img][/url] 10/12/04 I got my vac formed doors back tonight. He has made me some white plastic 1s which are thinner material and then he has made me the propper thick 1s. I test fitted 1 of the white thin 1s tonight. They are going to look really good, they fitted really nice 2. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Temp%20New%20Panel%20Open.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Temp%20New%20Panel%20Open_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Temp%20New%20Panel%20Closed.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Temp%20New%20Panel%20Closed_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Door%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Door%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url] 12/12/04 After work today, me and my dad got to work on fitting evrything in the new door panels. We mounted the bits of wood from the moulds on to the back of the new door cards. We then cut out the holes for the speakers in the bits of wood and then cut the plastic to match. We then marked where the tv was going to go and did the same. We then made a mounting bracket to hold it in place. So there was no screws showing we fixed everything with miterbond. we then cut out the hole for the crossover to be mounted. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Panel%20In%20Garage.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/New%20Panel%20In%20Garage_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Cutting%20New%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Cutting%20New%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Holes%20In%20New%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Holes%20In%20New%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Speakes%20And%20TV%20In%20New%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Speakes%20And%20TV%20In%20New%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Covers%20And%20Tv%20In%20New%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Covers%20And%20Tv%20In%20New%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url] 17/12/04 As soon as i got home from work tonight, i started work on the mount for the 7" computer touch screen in my car. I had to cut some of the dash away and modify the stand. I mounted the stand upside down on some mdf. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TFT%20On%20Its%20Own.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TFT%20On%20Its%20Own_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/2%20TFTs.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/2%20TFTs_small.jpg[/img][/url] 18/12/04 As soon as we finished wok, we went round to my grandmas house to start fitting all of the ice. We started by fitting the sub cable and then wired up the sub. We then mounted the boot tv. We then cut the holes out in the rear panels, fitted them and the mounted the amps then connected all the wires up. We then fitted the new door cards to see if they would fit, then took them off again. We then had to drill new holes in the doors and in the car so that the wires for the tv could run through. We did this with a huge drill bit =) By this time we had ran out of time for the day.> [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/The%20Ice%20Ready.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/The%20Ice%20Ready_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Drilling%20Door.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Drilling%20Door_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20And%20TV.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sub%20And%20TV_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Headrest%20With%20Wires.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20Headrest%20With%20Wires_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Drilling%20Car%20Again.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Drilling%20Car%20Again_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/The%20Cables.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/The%20Cables_small.jpg[/img][/url] 19/12/04 We had to go work in the morning, so about 1ish we went to my grandmas to carry on fitting the ice. We started off by fitting the rear seats, we then ran the speaker and tv cables from the doors into the car, this proved to be easier said than done. We then had to run the tv wires through the seats, we did this by putting some waste pipe through the seat and then just dropping the cables down and then removing the pipe. We fitted the tvs in both headrests. We then fitted the new door cards, with the tvs already fitted to them. We then mounted the cross over and connected the speaker cablles up. We then connected and fixed the door speaker to the panel. I also went to see "Phantom of the Opera" at the cinema with Hannah, was such a great film. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Speakers%20Fitted.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Speakers%20Fitted_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20With%20Headrest%20TV.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20With%20Headrest%20TV_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Fixing%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Fixing%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Amp%20In%20Back.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Amp%20In%20Back_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Panel%20Fitted.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Panel%20Fitted_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Fitting%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Dad%20Fitting%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url] 20/12/04 The car was booked in at Car Electronics at 6:30, i went to the doctors at 2, then started on the car as soon as i got back. I fitted the passenger seat, then got the wires from the two headrest tvs and ran them under the carpet to the from of the car when all the wires go to. I then wired all the power cables and earth cables together, mounted the tv booster box and then connected all the tv cables up to it. I then conncted a dvd player up as the input to test the screens, they looked quite good =) I then took the car to get set up, but as i hadnt mounted the tweeters yet they couldnt do it. I now have the amps working and it sounds ok, i hope the sub gets a bit better, cus at the moment i am not that impressed with it at all. I took a few pics of the car with all the tvs on when i got home. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/6TVs%20On.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/6TVs%20On_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/4TVs%20On.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/4TVs%20On_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20In%20Door.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20In%20Door_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20On%20In%20Boot.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/TV%20On%20In%20Boot_small.jpg[/img][/url] 23/12/04 I have sorted all the wires out in my car now. They are all hidden behind the dash. I have mounted the pc in the glove box, it is a really tight fit, but it works. I have just got to finish wiring it up to the power. It looks good when a movie is played through it. 1 of the mounting brackets for the passenger headrest tv came loose, so i have to fix it again. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20&%20TV.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20&%20TV_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20In%20Door.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20In%20Door_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20On%20Screens.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/PC%20On%20Screens_small.jpg[/img][/url] 28/12/04 To have my ice setup, Car Electronics said that i need to seal the doors and put all the screws in the sub. So this morning we got up early and got to work on the car. I needed to get all the cables tidy and fit the glove box pc in the car. I rewired all of the tvs, tested that they all worked, i then moved the wires behind the dash, i then screwed in the glove box pc. I hen tested the pc to see if it was working. The sound is ok, but there is a bit of interference, so i have got to get a better inslated cable. We then took the door panels off, to seal behind the panels on the door. We then mounted the tweeters in the handles and fixed and sealed the doors properly. I then took the car out for a quick drive with all th screens on and it was so nice to not have the cd changer keep skipping. [url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/AC%20In%20Door.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/AC%20In%20Door_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/AC%20In%20Car.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/AC%20In%20Car_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sealed%20Door.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sealed%20Door_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Behind%20Door%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Behind%20Door%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sealed%20Door%20Panel.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Sealed%20Door%20Panel_small.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Lowered%20With%20ICE.jpg][img]http://minichrome.co.uk/warnerworld/news/Lowered%20With%20ICE_small.jpg[/img][/url] The specs are: 1 x 500/1 1 x 300/2 1 x 13w6v2 1 x xr653cs 5 x lz650 1 x 7" vga touchscreen tft 1 x kvc1000 1 x kvc100r 1 x pld1 2 gauge JL powercable JL RCAs JL speaker cable In car 2.4ghz pc What does every 1 think? Ashley [Edited on 05-01-2005 by chumbly_warner] [Edited on 05-01-2005 by chumbly_warner] [/quote]
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