Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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Yeah, and how much ££ have you spent to get that standard torque of the XE.
I LOVE the 1.6 16v engine, but at the end of the day, spend £300 on an XE or £400 on a 1.6 16v. Then spend £2000 on each engine, and watch which one will rape ass on the other over speed.
Andy above had 145lb ft and 214bhp, no LSD or anything but had 135mph at 1.25miles. Lucky B with a similar spec 2.0 16v was doing 149mph (even though written as 147).
Luckys also hit 60 in 4.97, with standard interior
Andys done it in 6.09, stripped with roll cage.
Admittidly andys could be quicker now, but he's never gonna get below a 5 second 0-60 without spending a lot more £££. But then you could go to 300bhp on the 2.0 (similar stage tuning but on the 2.0) and still win easily.
How much does a standard 1.6 16v weigh? I know its got to be at least 70kg!!! Redtop is what 120kg. More weight, but more torque, more cc, more power.
As for handling, if you want a corsa to handle well, it needs a full kit, and poss a strut brace or two etc. Something that all should eb done on an XE coversion anyway.
2.0 16v - 155bhp - 144lb ft standard
1.6 16v - 106bhp - 120lb ft torque roughly.
I really love teh C16/X16 at 8000rpm, but the power of teh redtop wins me over these days. So drivable as standard.
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
Location: Cumbria, UK
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Tuning the 1.6 has definitely become cheaper though in recent years. Yes, I've got gettin on for 220bhp and plenty more torque than a red top, but if you settle for around 180bhp from a 1.6, you can get still get more torque from a 1.6 than a standard red top by:
flowing the head and upping the compression ratio
fitting uprated rod bolts
fitting a TB kit and engine management
that's it. Yes, it will cost you around £2.5K, but you'll have something that's quicker than a red top and that handles better
Luck B had a full race spec 2L lump - obviously gonna be quicker than my 1.6 race spec lump. He got those times also with the help of slicks and an LSD. Had my car been fitted with the equivalent, I could well have seen mid 5s. Having fitted longer trumpets, my mid range torque has also risen significantly. Remember too that toque doesn't tell the whole story - gearing can multiply lower engine torque up at the wheels to produce more acceleration, if there's more power and revs - that's why a bike-engined car that revs to 12000rpm will hit 60mph in less than 4 seconds despite having less than 80lb/ft of torque 
[Edited on 14-04-2004 by Andy]
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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The extra cc's will always offer more power and torque for the same money. But you dont have a XE in a corsa/nova to start with.
It depends what your after at the end of the day, both engines are very capable, and arguably the best in there classes. If you already have a 1.6 16v Corsa throttle bodying it is a very decent option compared to an XE conversion.
The F20 is also heavier than an F15. Not sure on exact weights.
A roll cage must weigh the same as a interior.
My car must be mid 5's, in relation to the 1/4 times. Traction and driving ability are the real problems here, not power as much once you get to this sort of level of performance.
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
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std x16xe's have more like 110 lb/ft btw
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Daimo B
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No, lucky had a MILD race spec lump pushing a claimed 250bhp.
His tyres were also NOT slicks, they were road legal as far as im aware, not full slick, not even cut slicks. They were sticky, but they were not full slicks!
Bikes are different, they weigh only 100-150kg. Bit different from a 750+kg corsa!!!
£2.5k and 180bhp. £2.5k on a redtop will see neigh on and sometimes over 200bhp with aroudn 160-170lb ft of torque. Still plenty more than the 1.6 can produce.
[Edited on 14-04-2004 by Daimo B]
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Daimo B
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Yeah F20 is a heavy gearbox Miles. Would like an F16, but everyones doing that. Would rather a straight cut box.
As you say, both engines i'd say are at the top of their class (still yet to see anther 2.0 16v that drives as well as the redtop). All this fancy 190+bhp from a 2.0 16v is nice, but their all like 2000+ engines. Redtops like 15years older than that! 
Redtops basically a toned down touring car engine.
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
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I wouldn't call 250bhp a MILD race spec.
Yes, its a bigger engine, which is also very good.
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
Location: Cumbria, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B
No, lucky had a MILD race spec lump pushing a claimed 250bhp.
His tyres were also NOT slicks, they were road legal as far as im aware, not full slick, not even cut slicks.
Bikes are different, they weigh only 100-150kg. Bit different from a 750+kg corsa!!!
£2.5k and 180bhp. £2.5k on a redtop will see neigh on and sometimes over 200bhp with aroudn 160-170lb ft of torque. Still plenty more than the 1.6 can produce.
you dont get 66% more power by mild race tuning
his tyres were Yoko A048s - not technically illegal, but you'd prob get a pull from the plod cos they are basically slicks which can be used to get you from a to b
Bike engined cars weigh around 500-700kgs - I never mentioned bike engined bikes
£2.5 may see approaching 200bhp on a red top, but what Corsa/Novas come with a red top fitted as standard? You still have the cost of finding the engine (prob reconditioning it as they're getting quite old now) and then fitting it
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Daimo B
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Ahhh hyes, but u have to have a 1.6 16v to start with. I didn't, i had a 1.4 16v. No point changing from a 1.4 to a 1.6.
We can sit here and argue this all day, you prefer the 1.6, i used to prefer the 1.6, now i prefer the 2.0.
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Daimo B
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Apologies,didn't read it properly, thought u said bikes, not bike engined cars.
Yeah, 12,000rpm limit helps, and bikes come with carbs as standard, and 130bhp odd. And 90% of bike conversions power the rear wheels, so in effect a bike engined car can't be compared to a fwd Corsa at all.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by miles
I wouldn't call 250bhp a MILD race spec.
Yes, its a bigger engine, which is also very good.
I would.
230bhp is fast road spec, 250bhp is mild race spec, 280-300bhp is full race spec.
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
Location: Cumbria, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B
Ahhh hyes, but u have to have a 1.6 16v to start with. I didn't, i had a 1.4 16v. No point changing from a 1.4 to a 1.6.
We can sit here and argue this all day, you prefer the 1.6, i used to prefer the 1.6, now i prefer the 2.0.
Yes- if I were starting with a 1.2 or something, and wanted cheap reliable power, I'd opt for a 2L. However, for those who already have a 1.6 sitting in the engine bay, the choice is more complex
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miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
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Im not prefering anything, I've never been in, let alone driven a c20xe nova/corsa. I can see the joys of both, and am more than happy with my choice 
I went from a 1.4 to a 1.6. Gives you a good chance to rebuild as well.
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
Location: Cumbria, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B
quote:
Originally posted by miles
I wouldn't call 250bhp a MILD race spec.
Yes, its a bigger engine, which is also very good.
I would.
230bhp is fast road spec, 250bhp is mild race spec, 280-300bhp is full race spec.
Mine 1.6 is classed as full race spec - yes I could get 255bhp from it, but it doesn't stop mean mine hasn't already had to be rebuilt as a race engine. 250bhp from a red top needs steel rods, forged pistons, solid lifters for higer revs - I think you'll find that is race spec!
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miles
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Whats 200bhp then?
Anything with a solid top end is serious.
300? Has this ever been achieved? Its more than the BTCC Cav's, and they were major!
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
Location: Cumbria, UK
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quote:
Originally posted by miles
Whats 200bhp then?
Anything with a solid top end is serious.
300? Has this ever been achieved? Its more than the BTCC Cav's, and they were major!
 - just fitted those longer air intakes and box around TBs Miles. Not been to have it mapped yet, but let me just say the mid range improvement is awesome. Will get some pics up v soon
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miles
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90mm tb's?
The 200bhp comment was aimed at the C20XE situation, I mean, I would call a C20XE'd Corsa fast road spec!
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miles
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90mm trumpets even
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Andy
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Registered: 28th Dec 99
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100mm trumpets I believe. Sitting in a nice deep alu box.
Yes, 200bhp is certainly a fast road spec - even that is not achievable with significant headwork
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penfold82
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Registered: 20th Feb 04
Location: Belfast
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by MikeH
adrian flux insurance?
im living in ireland dude and insurance companys just dont like modifed engines here.
sure this will shock ya.... i pay €2310(£2000) for a 1.2 8v and i'm 27
so the only way around it is to buy a cavailer or calibra i think.
You have my sympathys mate. i;m charged 1000 under my old man on the emerald isle for a 1.2 8v
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Siberia
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Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
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the thing that gets to me is i dont mind paying €3-4k on insuring a 2ltr corsa. but this crap of "oh its not in our list sorry" . I still havent given up hope on gettin quoted someware. still havent gone through all the back street brokers yet.
thing is i had sorta got over the it and decided to get a 1.6 16v engine and throw that in. but reading this thread and hearing how much better the 2ltr is, is a pain in the balls
but sure Thats life
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Daimo B
£2.5k and 180bhp. £2.5k on a redtop will see neigh on and sometimes over 200bhp with aroudn 160-170lb ft of torque. Still plenty more than the 1.6 can produce.
Mate I think you've completely missed the whole point of this post, It was started by keithie to ask whether he should tune his EXISTING 1.6 or drop a 2.0 16v in...
hence he Already has a 1.6 !!!! this is why everyone's saying put some TB's on it. Keith Piper has a TB kit for sale for £1500 since his 1.4 16v 190 bhp (supposedly) corsa blew up...
Yes of course a 2.0 16v will always be quicker if you spend same amount on it than a 1.6 16v... but using your example...
2.5k on a 1.6 - to spend 2.5k on a 2.0 - you'll have to spend 1.5k sourcing a engine etc then you'll only have 1k left to spend on the 2.0.
Good to have you back though daimo... 
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
Location: The FACTory
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i think just about everyone has missed the point of this post
all he wanted to know was has anyone beein in both a gsi and a 2litre
does the 2litre feel far faster
and would it be worth £1500 to get a 2litre in
my answers are
yes
yes
not sure as i've done my own conversion myself and i saw the benefits of doing a DIY job moneywise
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Siberia
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well if that was the Question then it was answered in the second post in this thread
so the rest of us thread clingeon's 
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J da Silva
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Registered: 10th Apr 03
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incorrect, lee only stated he likes the 2litre better, there was no mentioned of the conversion being worth £1500
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