M4tt
Member
Registered: 18th Apr 03
Location: Potters Bar
User status: Offline
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alrite alrite, don't get in a twist 
where am i looking 
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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www.velosmotorsport.co.uk/torq.htm
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M4tt
Member
Registered: 18th Apr 03
Location: Potters Bar
User status: Offline
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so those graphs are on standard management right?
they seem good for me, can't see where i lose the torque though 
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Nath
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
User status: Offline
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You dont loose the torque i dont think, i just dont think you get all the power and torque produced by the box because of std managament. Could be wrong there though.
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M4tt
Member
Registered: 18th Apr 03
Location: Potters Bar
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
You dont loose the torque i dont think, i just dont think you get all the power and torque produced by the box because of std managament. Could be wrong there though.
if thats the case put my name down  then ill consider the chiping route afta
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Nath
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
User status: Offline
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Thats what i made of it all anyway.
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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U2U's have been sent 
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Greasemonkey
Member
Registered: 17th Apr 02
Location: Drives a Tractor
User status: Offline
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this is my Mantzel on a C16XE engine as Daimo said earlier ya gain more BHP on this engine and the Mantzel gains more than the Velos, every little counts, i am RR my newly built engine soon so will let ya know the power, hoping for 150+BHP with my spec
old picture by the way
[Edited on 25-02-2004 by Greasemonkey]
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Just out of interest, what stops them being able to be used on a X12XE? but able to be used on a X14XE or X16XE...
Since these things replace the inlet, all that needs to match up is the inlet holes + the inletpipes from this velos thingy?
The inlet manifold area should be relatively similar shouldn't it? as its only the block is bore'd out more on a 1.4 - its not any wider is it? 
I've never seen one of these torque tubes or anything, but I would of thought one probably could be made to fit - same way the dbilas one does, ok not made for the engine - but the prinicble will still be the same and thus gains should still be expected?
Paul J
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Greasemonkey
Member
Registered: 17th Apr 02
Location: Drives a Tractor
User status: Offline
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i do belive there is one for your engine now, not 100% but have definately seen one for a 1.2 corsa, think diblias or what ever there called make it
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Greasemonkey
Member
Registered: 17th Apr 02
Location: Drives a Tractor
User status: Offline
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just checked and regal do the Dbilas inlet manifold for the X12XE its £810.30p and gains 20bhp
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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 they both look very similar 
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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yes I know about the bloody dbilas one - but far too expensive! guy on here had it on his SXi and got his car dyno'd at 105 bhp (on standard exhaust!)
It's because the regal 800 quid kit comes with a mapped uni chip and possibily cams too... So thats why its so expensive and I suppose thats why they get around 30 bhp from it? 75 bhp standard (raised limiter and mapped + the gains from the inlet manifold and thats how it gets to 105 I guess)
here's a dyno off the Velo's site for a 1.4 16v - only made 105 bhp with it... but notice how the graph is still rising really fast... If you raised the limiter that'd probably keep rising that for another 500-1000 rpm before leveling off. So with a raised limiter the peak power may be around 110-115 bhp with the kit he had.
thing is when you look at the X14XE without cover on, there's not a lot of difference to a X12XE without a cover on. Roughly same length and width, oil cover is in a different place, but I'd imagine the inlet slots being in a very similar location (perhaps slight difference in size)
Paul J
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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if you read the site properly you would see that graph shows the power at the wheels mate and not at the engine and flywheel
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Greasemonkey
Member
Registered: 17th Apr 02
Location: Drives a Tractor
User status: Offline
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Yes they are practically the same, the mantzel gains 22BHP on my engine apposed to 20 on the Velos but it peanuts really, the main difference is the engine the C16XE is a beauty cos the head on them is a bit special, the valves are slightly bigger on the exhaust side if i remember rightly, and there is no EGR, a C16XE with mantzel, chip, filter, exhaust including manifold can make 160BHP a X16XE would never manage that.
I havnt got a unichip but i have got a Mantzel Superchip which is mapped specifically for my mods, its almost as good as a unichip + its got the advantage or a 7500RPM rev limit
To get back on the subject i would definately say go for the velos one its a very good product, i found once fitted it pulled better lower down, but gives ya a kick at 5000 onwards, it great, throttle gets a bit sensitive on mine
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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We have 5 people interested and i await a reply to my email tomorrow morning 
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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ffs... I just spent about 30 mins writing an email to velos asking if they were going to make a product for a 1.2 16v - etc etc... explaining the benefits, the market, the competition etc... and pressed send and it asked me to login! then timed out!!!
GRrrr  I'm gonna cry anyone know how to get back what you just wrote?
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Stoneyginger
if you read the site properly you would see that graph shows the power at the wheels mate and not at the engine and flywheel
nice
[Edited on 26-02-2004 by Paul_J]
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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I have no idea mate i usually when finish typing something that is long i make sure i copy it so i can paste it if something goes wrong. You should get into that habit.
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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105 bhp at the wheels is a very good power to have IMO
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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yeh I thought 105 at the fly for all the mods listed was a bit low - 105 bhp at wheels is nice indeed, though he's done a few other bits other than torque tube.
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Stoneyginger
Premium Member
Registered: 25th Jan 01
Location: Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire
User status: Offline
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my car currently has 75bhp at the wheels so i could get anywhere near 100bhp at the wheels it would be an absolutly great improvement
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Just sent this to velos... 
A very rushed and crappy version of what I had written previously, was so gutted I lost it - it was perfectly worded, but since thats gone - I had to write the following piece of junk
Hi,
I was just curious whether Velo's do a product like the torque tube for the 1.2 16v Corsa B (75 bhp) X12XE engine? I've had my car dyno'd at 81 bhp with just a cat back exhaust and would like a bit more power.
The only other product I have seen is the dbilas dynamic flowtec manifold for the X12XE which claims around 25 bhp gain when mapped with a uni-chip, but that costs over 800 pounds.
A lot of people like the lower prices from the velo's torque tube range and I was curious whether there were any products available or any plans to produce something for the 1.2 16v in the near future?
I'd be quite happy to let you use my car as a test / demo car if you have something in development. I'm a member of the corsasport.co.uk group and attend many shows, car meets and cruises.
I see about 5 'Is there any way to increase my 1.2 16v's power?' posts on the site at least, every week. The Dibilas dynamic product seems to work good as a member of the site has bought it and had his car dyno'd at 105 bhp (at the fly and standard 75 bhp), but the price is very steep when you consider your other options (i.e. dropping a bigger engine in).
If there is nothing in the pipe line for the 1.2 16v directly, is it possible to fit a velos torque tube to the X12XE engine or adapt one to fit? has this ever been tried before? Both the X12XE and X14XE engines are a similar length and width and I'd imagine the inlet ports to be quite similar on both.
There is quite a large market for 1.2 16v tuning products that are relatively cheap. This is simply because a lot of young drivers choose the 1.2 16v as its a good compromise of performance and insurance costs. Then they grow up and either want something a little faster or have modifed the exterior of their car and want performance to match. When this happens they start looking for solutions of more performance and sadly because of the steap costs from dbilas (and regal) most people these days simply drop in a bigger engine as it works out the cheaper option.
Saying this however, there are a lot of people with low mile 1.2 16v Sxi Corsa B and Corsa C's that wouldn't be too happy chucking away their old 1.2 16v low mileage engine to be replaced by a 80,000 + mile 1.6 or 2.0 engine devalueing their car greatly.
I'd appriciate if you could shed some light on this for me, as I'm getting to the age where I would like a little bit more poke from my engine, but am attached to my car. Either information about 1.2 16v products (or future plans) or details on whether the velos torque tube can be fitted / made to fit the X12XE engine and if not, why?
Thanks for your time,
Paul Joslin
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AK
Member
Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
User status: Offline
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ello ello....
my thoughts......
my old 1.4 16v was all ready to get its mantzel manifold fitted when i sold it.....
I had the unichip, the cams, the rod bolts to take the raised rev limit.... uprated rollers just to be safe.....
BUT i just wasnt using the car so sold the inlet to Daimo for 50bar.....
i was running around 115bhp on my 1.4 with the following spec
1.4 16v
new heeeed
264 cams (sure they were 256 tho)
unichip (+superchip to raise idle)
PMC highflow manifold
GpA exhaust
i had the mantzel waiting to go on..... and was hoping for around 130bhp (fly)
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Stoneyginger
The Mantzel box was cheap for Daimo seen as he got it for £50 then sold it on
Needed another £170 worth of kit to get it on the car.
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