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Author C16XE mods
barnsleybulldog3
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Registered: 22nd Dec 03
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30th Jan 04 at 17:49   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

whats the best mods for C16XE?? Can it b turbo'd??
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 17:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Anything can be turbo'd for a price.....

Get a velos torque tube, the best power you can get for the money.
barnsleybulldog3
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Registered: 22nd Dec 03
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30th Jan 04 at 17:51   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

how much?? Where from??
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 17:52   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

No, on a C16XE get a mantzel box.

150+bhp if the engines a good un with minor mods.

Missis had 161bhp @ 7519rpm running

Mantzel Box, Lexmaul manifold, Mantzel superchip, exhaust, ind kit.

Just been a long post about inlet manifolds, have a look though the last few posts.

C16XE though, Mantzel box is deffo the one to go for, and im not just saying that cos i have one for sale

But if you are interested, check classifieds.
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 17:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
Anything can be turbo'd for a price.....

Get a velos torque tube, the best power you can get for the money.


Very debatable. Not seen many Velos box equiped 1.6 16v's doing below a 16 sec 1/4. Best power for money maybe, but best power, nope.
barnsleybulldog3
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Registered: 22nd Dec 03
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30th Jan 04 at 17:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

mines chipped wi a janspeed manifold. wot will the box give it?? will it need mapping???
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 17:57   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Oh yeah, the C16XE has a different lower inlet manifold so you cant fit the top part only. You need a different lower part to fit the velos one, although you can probably pick one up for 20 and still save a packet over the mantzel.

Velos = 285 + 20 odd for the inlet manifold (speak to velos, they might have one lying around)

Mantzel = 525? for the C16xe?

Both do the same thing and give the same power, about 20bhp.

If you want to spend the 500 odd get the velos induction system, which takes it a bit further, its a one peice tubular item that will give more power than the above 2.
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 17:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Putting the C16XE mantzel box give aroudn 22bhp as standard (X16/X14 is 20). But every C16XE mantzel box i've seen gives more that this when a few other mods are added.

Chipped, whats your rev limit at? Janspeed manifold is the same design as the lexmaul but milder steel.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 17:59   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

How many cars have you seen run? If you understand the principles of them you'll see they are exactly the same thing but the mantzel is prettier, made from cast alu, but the velos one is fabricated.

I dont see how the same type of thing, that gives the same increase in power and have a different affect on the 1/4 time.

Work fine with the standard ecu, although will be a bit better with a chip. Well worth the 285 without one though, then if you want to spend more there are other things to do.
Daimo B
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30th Jan 04 at 18:03   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
Oh yeah, the C16XE has a different lower inlet manifold so you cant fit the top part only. You need a different lower part to fit the velos one, although you can probably pick one up for 20 and still save a packet over the mantzel.

Velos = 285 + 20 odd for the inlet manifold (speak to velos, they might have one lying around)

Mantzel = 525? for the C16xe?

Both do the same thing and give the same power, about 20bhp.

If you want to spend the 500 odd get the velos induction system, which takes it a bit further, its a one peice tubular item that will give more power than the above 2.


285 Since when? That Velos box does NOT give the power gains the C16 mantzel box does. I'll argue this till im out of puff. Not seen ONE velos box hit over 155bhp with minimal mods. 20 for the inlet manifold, + the cost of having them sort it to match the Velos tube.

You wont get the C16 kit for just over 300 i can assure you.

And btw, the only Velos kit i've seen to get around 140-150bhp (Tops) is the 500 jobbie.

Mantzel box retails at 595 from Courtenay. (Ripp off)
barnsleybulldog3
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Registered: 22nd Dec 03
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30th Jan 04 at 18:04   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

its got 7000 on clock but tops out at 6500ish.
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 18:05   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
How many cars have you seen run? If you understand the principles of them you'll see they are exactly the same thing but the mantzel is prettier, made from cast alu, but the velos one is fabricated.

I dont see how the same type of thing, that gives the same increase in power and have a different affect on the 1/4 time.

Work fine with the standard ecu, although will be a bit better with a chip. Well worth the 285 without one though, then if you want to spend more there are other things to do.


Velos Box 1.6 16v corsas, seen around 4-5 different cars go up the strip.
Mantzel box, seen about 5-6 go up the strip, all getting better kind of times.

Had a crack against velos equiped corsas on teh road with my 2.0. Easy meat. Had a crack against a few Mantzel Novas and Corass, much more difficult, 50-80 odd, not much in it. 2.0 carries on thereafter.

I have been in this for around 4 years miles, i do know my inlet manifolds anmd how the bloody work!!!!! Cheeky git!!!


[Edited on 30-01-2004 by Daimo B]
ffls
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Registered: 29th May 02
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   30th Jan 04 at 18:06   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

You must increase the rev limit to over 7000 rpm if you want to gain all the perfomance, so fit Velos box and a chip (unichip) properly mapped for the kit.
Then you can rev the engine till 7300 rpm (but use quality engine oil only
th Power band is more than 2500 rpm, nice upgrade
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 18:06   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by barnsleybulldog3
its got 7000 on clock but tops out at 6500ish.


its not been chipped then as the standard limit it above 6500rpm. U need the revs raised to about 7300-7500rpm to get the best from it (i.e goes off the clocks )
barnsleybulldog3
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Registered: 22nd Dec 03
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30th Jan 04 at 18:07   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

daimo email me about wot u wat for mantzel barnsleybulldog3@aol.com
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 18:08   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

6650 RPM.

Is it not 285 on velos's website? Was last time I was on there I think...

Its all down to the rollers daimo, I can promise you donna wouldn't get near 161bhp at velos....

What is so different about the 2 items?

What will need doing to the inlet manifold bar a small blanking plate for the egr plate?

For the sake of saving near on 300 I'd go for velos even if I did lose 2 or 3 bhp (which you wont )
ffls
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Registered: 29th May 02
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   30th Jan 04 at 18:09   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

After Daimo responses we would like to see some power runs please
to compare the upgrades
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 18:11   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

I'd like to think I know a bit about them as well thanks, I have fitted my mantzel several times, inc to my C16XE with x14xe manifold.....

Please tell all the differences between the 2 which make so much difference....
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 18:13   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
6650 RPM.

Is it not 285 on velos's website? Was last time I was on there I think...

Its all down to the rollers daimo, I can promise you donna wouldn't get near 161bhp at velos....

What is so different about the 2 items?

What will need doing to the inlet manifold bar a small blanking plate for the egr plate?

For the sake of saving near on 300 I'd go for velos even if I did lose 2 or 3 bhp (which you wont )


Well, considering the car was RR at Northampton Motorsport, with jsut the remus exhaust with 109bhp (Standard)
Then had an air filter and new bigger exhaust system fitted.

Gave 114bhp on Mantzel Rolling Road
Mods were fitted
Gave 161bhp on teh same RR, same engine, different mods,.

At worst we worked out to be 155bhp. No disputing the power no matter how hard you try. As i say, wasn't far off my 2.0 with with my smaller wheels and less weight!!!!

Whats different, the shape, the look, the way the air is flowed down the inlet manifold etc (Well, u need to make customs bits as u've stated above).

Dont get me wrong, X16, velos/mantzel give aroudn teh same power.

C16, the mantzel is by far the best.


"What will need doing to the inlet manifold bar a small blanking plate for the egr plate?"

On teh C16XE with mantzel box, nothing. Straight swap.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 18:13   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Oh, and if the velos cant be fitted to the C16XE then how can 1.6 corsa's be compared? Surely thats more like comparing the X and C engines?
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 18:17   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

If you wanted to save fitting the blanking plate you could buy the inlet manifold the c16xe mantzel uses from courtenay for 70. Im not one to waste 70 for the sake of a 2 minute job....
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 18:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

quote:
Originally posted by miles
Oh, and if the velos cant be fitted to the C16XE then how can 1.6 corsa's be compared? Surely thats more like comparing the X and C engines?


Yeah, they are different, port shapes are for a starters!!

And yeah, C16 and X16 engines are different. This is why SBD are now re-doing a TB conversion, not on their 240bhp X16 engine, but on the C16 engine.

I never said once it couldn't be fitted to teh C16, u did. U said it needed different parts, new inlet manifold.

And yes i know u fitted your own m-box
ffls
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Registered: 29th May 02
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   30th Jan 04 at 18:18   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

C16 XE No air injection, no EGR, and a slightly increased CR
X16XE the main restrictive factor is the EGR for me.
I blanked the EGR Valve and now I find the engine more responsive, I was a bit surprised
Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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30th Jan 04 at 18:21   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

Yup, ur right about that.

But the inlet ports on teh C16 are different to the X16 hence why the C16 kit comes with the lower inlet manifold.
miles
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: plymouth Drives: Astra Sport
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30th Jan 04 at 18:23   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote

SBD are making a differnet tb kit for the C and X engines?

I didn't know that and cant see why tbh. The only differences after the tbs are fitted are the inlet port size and the CR, mapping would allow for these.


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